I'm hooked!

[Iguana]

I have been following Combat Mission since before it was Combat Mission, back when it was going to be computer ASL. I remember when I received the email from BTS saying that computer ASL had been cancelled and they were going to develop CM on their own. Being angry over this development, I sent them back an email saying that I wanted computer ASL and to take me off their mailing list.

I was unable to control my curiosity, however, and still followed the development of CM, in a detached kind of way, via the website and this forum. When the beta demo was released, I downloaded it and took a quick peek. Interested, I decided to wait until I had some free time to evaluate it.

Yesterday, I played through my first scenario (Last Defense as the Americans). BTS, I am amazed! CM is breaking new ground. It took me a couple of turns to get used to the way it played, but boy am I hooked now. The Tiger and assault guns were pounding my right flank into dust until my reinforcements arrived. It took those Hellcats only one turn to take out the Tiger and both assault guns (though one of them was destroyed also). I love the way the replay works and how we can move the camera around on the battlefield.

Though I still want someone to do computer ASL, you can count on my order for Combat Mission. It's obvious a lot of hard work and love has gone into CM and it shows.

[Guest Big Time Software]

Hehe... thanks You were not the only SL/ASL guy to email us either. The problem is that you thought that there could be no higher achievement than to recreate SL/ASL rule for rule. This is a shakey position for starters as no game is perfect, and we have found many errors in SL/ASL that we can testify that it isn't either

The truth is that Charles had a stack of every SL/ASL thing that AH had ever released (a small perk from working with AH ) and spent a long time going over everything to see how it could be translated. The conclusion was... it could not be done without trashing the core of the game system, which in effect would not make it SL/ASL. Well, I'll rephrase that... it can not be translated faithfully AND achieve the highest possible level of playability and realism (which were always the two main goals). That is where SL/ASL went back on the shelf and Combat Mission was born (mostly in a pub over beers ). This was about 6-8 months BEFORE BTS broke away from AH, or about a month or so after it was started. So even if AH had survived, and BTS was still with them, Combat Mission would be exactly the same as it is now.

Like all paper and cardboard games, SL/ASL just does not translate well into a computer game. As evidence of this, name me *one* boardgame that was wholely translated into a computer game in the last 10 years that pleased the bulk of the boardgame followers? I can think of none! There are many reasons for this, but as someone who has done boardgame adaptations before, we can say from experience that there are inherent problems that make this a near impossible task. Boardgames are designed around their limitations, and therefore are totally wedded to them. The computer offers ways of bypassing those limitations, so destruction of the game system is soon to follow, resulting in something that has little relation to the boardgame original. That is, if the computer game is to do anything more than act as a counter pusher and number cruncher. In that regard, we say why bother?

Steve

[Mark L]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>As evidence of this, name me *one* boardgame that was wholely translated into a computer game in the last 10 years that pleased the bulk of the boardgame followers?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Over the Reich" and "Achtung: Spitfire," perhaps? Much more fun to play on a computer than the board game, IMHO. (Tho maybe they don't qualify as "wholely translated"...?)

I'm one of the one's that DIDN'T want to see just ASL on a computer. I've always thought you could do things a LOT differnetly and better on a computer. CM seems to have done just about all of them.

I still think ASL is great game (if you're into BIG complicated games! ). But it does have some quirks, IMHO, due to the boardgame format. It's still a blast to play, tho.

Mark

[Guest Big Time Software]

Hehe... Mark, you are exactly correct to point to AS and OTR. They are based on boardgames, but they aren't literal translations. Granted, they are closer to the originals than Combat Mission is to ASL, but my point stands. Charles made significant changes, not only to the game system itself, but also to the game data. Some of it was wrong, some of it simply didn't work when Charles injected more realism into the game engine. That is part of the problem.

Any game is like a house of cards. You can remove one or two features, but it doesn't take many before the whole thing falls apart. So Charles started off looking at ASL and syaing, "OK, I need to change this to get this, and that to achieve that, and if I want to do this I'm going to have to change this..." and pretty soon he looked up and saw that what he had in front of him was no longer ASL. From then on, war books became the source of design inspiration.

Steve

[Iguana]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Like all paper and cardboard games, SL/ASL just does not translate well into a

computer game. As evidence of this, name me *one* boardgame that was

wholely translated into a computer game in the last 10 years that pleased the

bulk of the boardgame followers?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How about Wooden Ships and Iron Men? Never played it myself, but read that it was a good translation. Axis and Allies?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Well, I'll rephrase that... it can not be

translated faithfully AND achieve the highest possible level of playability and

realism (which were always the two main goals). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never say "can't", or "impossible". Anyway, if what you say is true, I'll still settle for an accurate translation of ASL. Let me make myself more clear here. I would like to see an accurate translation of ASL on the computer, preferably with a competant AI computer opponent and with PBEM capability. I don't want anyone to try to "fix" anything about ASL that they don't think is realistic enough. Don't change it one iota. I want the maps to look the same. I want the units to look like the cardboard counters. I even want to see the dice rolling on the screen. What I would like is an accurate translation of ASL the boardgame.

I realize that isn't what BTS wanted to do and understand the reasons that you made CM instead. After playing CM, I think that it is the most accurate computer representation of WWII company level engagements that I have ever seen, with the possible exception of PITS and TOTP (which are so "graphically challenged" that I find them hard to play). Not only that, but CM looks fantastic and, most importantly, is fun to play. After playing the demo, you are officially forgiven for giving up on computer ASL and can count on my business as long as you keep making great wargames like CM.

Now, Hasbro, how about giving us computer ASL? I know it's only a matter of time before someone does it....

[This message has been edited by Iguana (edited 11-11-99).]

[007]

I thought Starfleet Command was an awesome tranlation for the computer game.

007

[Lee]

007, Starfleet Command is an excellent translation of

Starfleet Battles. It's not perfect, but then again,

SFB is so complicated that you can't implement everything

the first time out. And SFC II will have at least 4

more races and many more features of SFB added in.

It will only get better as time goes on.

If anyone here likes the idea of getting to fight

detailed tactical Star Trek starship battles in space,

then try out Starfleet Command from Interplay, I think

you'll be impressed. There's a demo available, too.