Rick Posted May 29, 1999 Share Posted May 29, 1999 I saw that you guys at BTS didn't like Steel Panthers. Basically my question is this, are there any currently available games that you consider worthy of respect? I have Over the Reich, so no need to plug that one to me. I like it, but quite frankly, I'm pretty terrible at it. I write this because the wait for Combat Mission is beginning to get pretty difficult, and I want a tide me over. However, I don't have the time or money to go around trying everything available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted May 31, 1999 Share Posted May 31, 1999 It all depends on your level of historical knowledge. I found that I liked more games better when I knew less That is why *I* need Combat Mission finished as much as anybody else! I want to have fun with something that doesn't make me cringe ever time I play it Personally speaking, I have not found one WWII game that offers realism and play consistency which I can not find serious fault with. However, I did enjoy Close Combat 2 and Steel Panthers 1 enough that I would buy them again. The cool thing is that both should be pretty cheap to purchase since they are so "old". My "that does it!" point with Steel Panthers came after enough play time that overall I enjoyed it as a GAME, just not as a simulation. If you haven't played SP, I would recommend finding it in a discount bin, or part of some collection, and get it. CC2 was a lot of fun to play, for the most part, but again wasn't very good in the simulation aspect. However, for both games I would recommend playing scenarios more than campaigns. During CC2 in one case I was able to defeat the Brits on the same map something like 20 times in a row, which got REALLY old Some of the battles lasted less than 3 minutes! Ah... but let's not get into that now! Steve [This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 05-30-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted May 31, 1999 Share Posted May 31, 1999 I suggest you guys try “101st Airborne". You will not be disappointed. ------------------ The Grumbling Grognard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted May 31, 1999 Author Share Posted May 31, 1999 Forgive me if my reply is crazy. I just got back from a Memorial Day/Graduation Party. Looks like I need to look into 101 Airborne. I already have the entire Steel Panthers series. I have greatly enjoyed the games, but one thing I can't get over, especially now after reading about Combat Mission, is the lack of simultaneous execution. I don't understand why Gary Grigsby didn't put that in SP, it was in Kampfgruppe. As far as the question of historical knowledge, I have vastly more than the average American, but apparently quite less than you guys. I wasn't actually expecting the guys at BTS to reply until Tuesday. I thought you guys were leaving for the holiday weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Chaos Posted May 31, 1999 Share Posted May 31, 1999 "Looks like I need to look into 101 Airborne. I already have the entire Steel Panthers series. I have greatly enjoyed the games, but one thing I can't get over, especially now after reading about Combat Mission, is the lack of simultaneous execution. I don't understand why Gary Grigsby didn't put that in SP, it was in Kampfgruppe" SSI most likely wanted to simplfy(sp?) the game.Remember the game came out in '95 after Pnzer General.SSI saw how many PG's were selling and said to themseleves "Hey wargames can sell big! We just need to improve the graphics and make the game easier for the average game buyer to understand!" Thats just a guess but that is the way SSI sells it's games anymore...wargame lite.(Harpoon4 may singnal a change in that though) ------------------ Mr Chaos Warhammer 40k Scenario Page http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/3805 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Chaos Posted May 31, 1999 Share Posted May 31, 1999 Sorry about all the mis-spellings..I need more sleep ------------------ Mr Chaos Warhammer 40k Scenario Page http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/3805 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted May 31, 1999 Author Share Posted May 31, 1999 >>SSI most likely wanted to simplfy(sp?) the game.Remember the game came out in '95 after Pnzer General.SSI saw how many PG's were selling and said to themseleves "Hey wargames can sell big! We just need to improve the graphics and make the game easier for the average game buyer to understand!"<< That was what I was thinking. It's kind of sad though, that particular feature increases the realism a large amount for the small amount of added difficulty. But then again, I know people who think Steel Panthers is too hard to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted June 1, 1999 Share Posted June 1, 1999 I had some interesting discussions with a senior level SSI guy at the time of Panzer General's release. The upshot is that SSI was in trouble and needed every hit they could get (this is juuuuust prior to Mindscape buying them). Up until that point they had been targeting the hardcore first (and fantasy to some extent), mass market second. Panzer General went out the door and, much to their surprise, was the most successful product they ever had by a wide margin. What this has to do with Steel Panthers being the way it is, I don't know. I do suspect it had something to do with the way it turned out. BTW, the reason Steel Panthers went with IGOUG instant movement system is because general gamers LIKE the ability to move, shoot, move, shoot, etc. In other words, instant feedback, instant gratifiation. Not realistic in any way, but it is more appealing to the mass market. I'm not sure about Grigsby's intentions, but I know there was much talk in the wargame development community about this style of play at the time. There are plenty of other games that followed this line of thinking too. We aren't one of them Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 1, 1999 Author Share Posted June 1, 1999 I'm glad BTS is going with the simultaneous execution. I feel that it is much more realistic, even if it is a little harder. Nothing I hate more than moving an infantry squad, only to have the entire enemy force fire on it before your able to do anything else. This might need to be in another topic, but will recon vehicles spot better than other AFVs? That was another problem with Steel Panthers. Since, recon vehicles didn't spot any better than MBTs, I felt that purchasing them for use in a campaign did nothing more than provide your enemy with an easy target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted June 1, 1999 Share Posted June 1, 1999 AFAIK SP4 is going to use an initiative-based system (Phased turns in other words). Kind of like Dragoon and 101st Airborne in Normandy used.. This is from some reliable people so is correct as of this date (design decisions may cause a change but as of now this is correct). The interesting thing to me is that to play SP4 against another human PBEM is OUT ! since with phased initiative etc you would need to exchange a dozen emails per turn, each time moving only 1 or 2 units. There was talk of them shoehorning the initiative based system into a PBEM-able system be creating a slightly more IGOUGO (non-initiative based system for PBEM games0 but I don't know how far that thinking has gone. As far as I'm concerned the loss of PBEM functionality would be a grievous one and is a strike against the game. The nice thing is that with simultaneous turns it is quite possible to conduct PBEM games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lokesa Posted June 1, 1999 Share Posted June 1, 1999 Addressing Ricks original post, Have you checked out Chain of Command? It's relatively free you just have to click banners a lot and deal with frustration due to lag but other than that it's a free game. I like it, you command four soldiers on a team with other internet players fighting as either Germans or Americans. The game is extreemely simple but very addictive, and it doesn't presume anything so it's hard to be let down, you get what you pay for If you're interested go to 2am.com make an account and follow instructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 1, 1999 Author Share Posted June 1, 1999 I never heard of Chain of Command, sounds like it's worth checking out the next time I can afford to spend that much time on the Internet to download something. The info on SP4 sounds great. The wait is going to be incredible. They need to make a lot of changes before it will be better than Combat Mission sounds like it's going to be. I can't comment on the loss of PBEM, never played a game that way. Shocking isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted June 1, 1999 Share Posted June 1, 1999 CoC is an internet only game. The download to play it is only about 6 Mb and it is quite fun. I play it all the time. At least once or twice a day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Posted June 2, 1999 Share Posted June 2, 1999 Under what name and in what regiment? Sten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lokesa Posted June 2, 1999 Share Posted June 2, 1999 Darwin of the 99th here. The regiment page wouldn't accept "Lokesa" for some reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted June 2, 1999 Share Posted June 2, 1999 Re : CoC Strider - Hohenstaufen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Posted June 2, 1999 Share Posted June 2, 1999 I'm Congestion, as yet not connected to any regiment. Sten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted June 2, 1999 Share Posted June 2, 1999 I play under the incredibly imaginative Fionn.. Sgt- 2SS planner and tactician.. who usually gets incredibly frustrated when all his squadmates run off and don't follow the plan hehe Oh and I made supersoldier too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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