[Infantry in buildings just won't die.. (and now they won't run away either..)]

13 hours ago, Freyberg said:

30 cal. HMGs (i.e. the watercooled ones) in the WWII games can put out very good suppressing fire against buildings, and there are various light vehicles that have .50 cal HMGs (and lots of ammo), that are not good for much else than long range fire against infantry in hard cover - you're probably better off to keep them further back than 300m in WWII titles though.

It's actually not that hard to eliminate an infantry squad in a building with a vehicle .50 cal in the WWII games (what matters a lot is the amount of ammo you have), even in CMFI where buildings are almost all made of stone.

Yeah it would be nice but this scenario is infantry only and no vehicles in the battle so there is no 50 cal to suppress the building which is why I am saying it was difficult to take out the building.

[Infantry in buildings just won't die.. (and now they won't run away either..)]

On 12/13/2020 at 1:36 AM, General Jack Ripper said:

Okay.

Heavy modular buildings have always been very strong defensively. What you've experienced is two very select instances that are no doubt very frustrating, but aren't indicative of the average.

In SF2 your infantry are armed with guns that shoot tiny little bullets, that will not really penetrate buildings at any distance aside from point blank range. You need to rely on your 40mm and .50cal to get any real results. I make it an SOP for my Strykers to follow my infantry at a distance of about 3-400 meters and use their 40mm and 50cal to engage enemy in buildings. When the enemy is flushed into the open, they then become easy meat for my infantry.

A good example can be seen in this video:

I can't speak to the Fortress Italy example because I've only played a few scenarios, and am not yet completely familiar with the Italian TO&E.

One thing you might want to keep in mind is to use an Area Target order to deliberately f_ck up the building to convince the enemy to exit, or at least keep them pinned so you can close assault them.

Like this:

Then again, you might just have run into someone with the 'Fanatic' trait, which while extremely rare, does occasionally happen.

Well all good if you have armour or 50 cal to use but my little ww2 infantry only have 30 cal and tiny bazaooka that did not much work to the building, I'm pretty sure IRL it would not have such small impact to a buildings exterior but in combat mission it had little effect in my scenario.

On 12/13/2020 at 2:00 AM, General Jack Ripper said:

Fire smoke at building.
Use the smoke to position your supporting weapons unmolested.
After smoke clears suppress the heck out of the building.
Fix bayonets.

Yes, I did try to use smoke to cover the building but for some reason they were still able to see through it. I don't know if that was because they were only 60mm mortar rounds and the elevation from the upper floor meant they could look down and see the helmets from my infantry. Even when I tried to rush squads close their MG42 and MP40 cut my men down. I have never had issues with clearing buildings this scenario was one of the first time I found a building with one squad in it that could mow down infantry without a care from suppression or multi angle fire.

[Infantry in buildings just won't die.. (and now they won't run away either..)]

16 hours ago, Pelican Pal said:

If you have enough forces maybe combine a long distance .30 cal with other suppressing fires that allow you to bring a .30 cal MMG in closer?

 

I'm playing a QB currently and my men aren't leaving buildings but they are surrendering. I suspect often players use motivation/experience that is higher than it usually was creating these sort of "fight to the end" situations.

Honestly I tried to use two 30 cals at a distance to pin the infantry inside and they might as well have been not getting shot at they didn't care one bit. It might have raised their suppression a by one or two bars but nothing amazing to keep their hands down long enough.

12 hours ago, Freyberg said:

You're facing a very small German force. The wind is gentle from the West (your friendly edge), which makes it perfect for blocking a flank with smoke (you can choose when to do this, you don't have much smoke, but whether you use it in your initial approach or when you're assaulting, it will help).

I'd come in from the South, fast, until you have defilade from the elevation on the hills. MG42s are lethal at long range, so move as quick as you can. You'll take some casualties, but if you choose your approach based on the topography, you should be able to minimise exposure at range.

Once in the lea of the hills, you have a lot of room to move. The steep angle of the hills makes it possible to isolate one or two buildings at a time, and you have a TRP, so you can use mortar fire to suppress any massed enemy (and there aren't many of them to mass).

Then, taking it bit by bit, using the terrain to allow you to concentrate on one position (one or two buildings) at a time, get in quite close (150-200m) and pour on the Garand fire as well the MMGs (area fire, but save a few squads or teams to pick out visible targets). You should be able to manoeuvre some assault teams in close, again using the slope of the terrain for cover.

Don't occupy any buildings until you have moved up enough men to occupy them in force - clear them from the outside, using the building as cover from enemy fire from other buildings.

The force ratio is all in your favour. Just make sure you throw everything you can at each target in turn - a platoon of Garands, at the right range, is way more than a match for an MG42.

And be patient, manoeuvre your assault teams with 'hunt' and 'slow', use the crops and vines for concealment. Your optimum range is just outside 100m, where the Garand has good accuracy, you can spot the enemy, but German SMGs are inaccurate. Wait until you think each pocket of Jerries is dead before you bring the assault teams in close. And as you bring the assault teams up, slowly bring some of the fire elements up too, a good 50m or more behind them.

 

 

 

I had no issues getting up close to the building I could easily get 100m out before they fired upon my infantry. I'm pretty sure they are set to fire on a cover arc so they don't open fire at long distance.

I tried with a platoon + 2 mg to try suppress the squad but they would win the direct firefight with ease. Again it comes down to suppression element and I think if you were getting shot at from a platoon + 2x mg + bazooka you would know about it. I know the bazooka can't really show accurate damage like it would to the building IRL but that must have a better effectiveness on infantry targets. Usually against brick building a bazooka is a great tool but this stone one in particular was very resistant to any fire I put on it.

Like I said I usually don't have too much issue with infantry in buildings but this one was particually difficult to budge even with a mass of small arms fire power.

[Infantry in buildings just won't die.. (and now they won't run away either..)]

So I had my own issue with this on the CMFI scenario The Battle for Borgo Cascino. This stone/concrete block building with a squad on the 2nd floor. Now usually infantry in buildings is not a problem if you have something decent to hit them with, however this map is infantry only with only a few bazooka, 60mm mortars and two 30 cal MG.

I have took a few pictures of the building and its location with infantry inside.

The squad inside can see at pretty much every angle and can shoot at a distance of 50-100m depending on where it is looking once the enemy get close enough above the hill. The enemy squad is equipped with MG42, few MP40 and rifles.

I understand how to suppress a building and make the enemy inside pinned but no matter what tactics I used the enemy were able to withstand an assault from multiple sides while being fired upon.

Effectiveness rating -  1 (bad) - 2 (poor) - 3 (balance) - 4 (good) - 5 (excellent)

Standard infantry weapons - 1 (bad) - Minimal suppression, no damage to infantry inside, lack of building penetration

Bazooka (distance medium) - 1 (bad) - Fired 4-5 rockets into building, no damage to infantry inside

30 cal machine gun (distance far) - 2 (poor) - Minor suppression effect but not enough to pin enemy, no damage to infantry inside, lack of building penetration
30 cal machine gun (distance medium/close) - 3 (balance) - Good suppression, some infantry killed or wounded, can pin enemy squad but able to recover quickly. (Note: Friendly mg team took heavy casualties from enemy squad due to distance)

60mm mortar - 1 (bad) - No suppression, no damage to infantry inside. Even direct hits to the building caused no enemy casualties

Smoke + Infantry assault - 1 (bad) - Enemy squad is able to locate and engage friendly infantry (Note: possibly due to the 2nd floor advantage position?) Suffered heavy losses during assault. Multiple directions attempted while suppressive fire is targetting building.

Building > Building infantry firefight (distance medium) - 1 (bad) - Minimal suppression, no damage to infantry inside, lack of building penetration on enemy building. (Note: friendly infantry took heavy casualties vs superior building defence)

 

Anyone care to suggest how this situation can be dealt with effectively because I certainly wasn't able to do so without losing a lot of man power? I can't exactly bypass the building either because it is part of the objective I really want!