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Nidhöggr

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    Fighting Russians in Ukraine. A foreign volunteer view.

    in Combat Mission Black Sea

    Posted

    If you have a poor understanding of the facts and unreasonable expectations about how quickly things can change, you're bound to be disappointed.

    If Russia had not sent in regular forces to Debaltseve Ukraine would not have lost it.  Even with the Russian forces it was a difficult fight and taking the city was obviously behind the Russian military planner's schedule.  They were supposed to have taken the city BEFORE the Minsk 2 ceasefire went into place as this is the way Russia operates.  It takes something by force and then gets a ceasefire to help keep it.  In reality the Russian forces were fighting full force for 3 days after the fake ceasefire.  They also allowed a huge proportion of the Ukrainian forces to escape because they were not able to fully interdict their withdrawal. 

    As someone who has a degree in history, studied warfare for almost 30 years, and made wargames for 20+ years... it is my opinion that the Ukrainians did pretty well in this operation with all factors considered.  Certainly it was a major improvement over the fighting only a few months before.  I am on record of saying that as the battle came to a close around this same time last year.  I have seen no new information since then to change my mind.

    Factually incorrect.  I mean that in the most literal sense.  Others have already covered this.  Ukraine has absolutely no responsibility for what happened.  None, zero.  It is a fact, not an opinion.

    I don't want to have a debate about MH-17, but it is pretty clear that Russia didn't hand this system over to a bunch of coal miners.  It is too complicated to operate and therefore the only reasonable conclusion is that it was crewed by a Russian military crew.  There is also ample 1st hand evidence that it was.

    Steve

    You have answered my post and yet you do not adress my Point?!

    Educate yourself about the actual battlemap over Debaltseve if you don't get my point i suggest that you study warfare for yet another 30 years.

     

    Ukraine has the ultimate RESPONSIBILITY  to adress ANY potential risk for civilian airliners inside their airspace and that's a FACT!

    I have never BLAIMED Ukraine for the downing of Mh17!

    READ MY POSTS before you reply!

    I have pointed finger at INKOMPETENCE of Ukrainian officals involved in flightsecurity!

    FACT 1. A Ukrainian cargo plane is shot down at high altitude!

    FACT 2. A fully operational BUK is inside the CONFLICT ZONE!

    FACT 3. A fully operational BUK is out of Ukrainian Control!

    FACT 4. A fully operational BUK is driving around in areas NOT controlled by the Ukrainians!

    For any COMPETENT official this is a serious threat to flightsecurity and should be adressed!!

    3 Days later a fully operational BUK pops up...out of Ukrainian CONTROL....in an area that Ukraine do not CONTROL...manned by half-assed trained separatist or a sloppy Russian crew.....and here comes Mh17 and they are just about to fly over the most DANGEROUS area in Ukraine......INKOMPETENCE!!!

    Yes some halfwit Russian pulled the trigger.....but seriously dude....there are several Ukrainian officials who needs to have a size10 Dr Martens UP THEIR ASSES....many times....H-A-R-D!!

    .....and that's a F-A-C-T!!

     

     

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    Fighting Russians in Ukraine. A foreign volunteer view.

    in Combat Mission Black Sea

    Posted

      It is getting better.

    I'm sure that claim would have brought great comfort to those Ukrainian Soldiers trapped in Debaltseve.....

    Did you follow that battle?...i did, it was pretty obvious what those Russian "Tourists" and seperatists was aiming to do.

    The Ukrainians was pouring in heavy military hardware in Debaltseve,So when the Tourists was starting to squeeze the lifeline to Debaltseve you would expect some kind of reaction some kind of plan B from the U.A. HQ but....No.

    After watching how those young Ukrainian sailors in Crimea was treated by the Green men and EVEN WORSE those Ukrainian-Russian civilans i hoped that the Ukrainian Army would have made a Swift victory in the Eastern provinces.....but the Debaltseve debacle put a final nail into that coffin.At least for me.

     Though one does have to wonder what your intent was about criticizing Ukraine over the Russian proxies shooting down that airliner.  What has the UKR gov't have to do with that. 

     

    Everyone who has the slightest knowledge about Mh17....except Russians and Western crackpot conspiracy nutters knows that Mh17 was brought down by mistake by half-assed trained Separatists or a russian military unit.

    First....regardless of ANY flight organisations on this planet,those who have the ultimate responsibility for Ukrainian airspace is U-K-R-A-I-N-E.

    It is Ukraine who is RESPONSIBLE for the safety of passengers on civilian Airliners in their own airspace!

    The international flight route over Ukraine used by Mh17 passed over a CONFLICT ZONE with that in mind you would expect that that government RESPONSIBLE for flight security would be ON THEIR TOES....would be ON FULL ALERT and to REACT to all specific events in that CONFLICT ZONE to ensure SAFETY for civilian airliners!

    For several months the Ukrainian Airforce had been a thorn in the side for the separatist.

    June 29 2014: 18 Days before the demise of Mh17....D.P.R. uses twitter and show a picture of a captured BUK system, dismantled....but still.

    July 14 2014: 3 Days before the demise of Mh17....Russian seperatists or a Russian Army unit successfully and for the FIRST time shots down an Ukrainian AN-26 at 6500 meters using a BUK missile system CLEARLY a game changer for flight security.

    You would expect those RESPONSIBLE for flight security to BE ON THEIR TOES to be fully ALERT and to R-E-A-C-T to this game changing event in the CONFLICT ZONE....like.. we can no longer guarantee their safety let's bring those airliners out of HARMS WAY and re-route the airline highway R-E-A-C-T for gods sake!

    But instead things gets even worse!

    Mh17 is not just passing over the conflict zone they are also supposed to pass over an area with the most aerial activity in the entire conflict zone!

    Ukrainian SU-25s has been buzzing around this area for more than a week.

    July 15th 2014: The seperatists has gained Control over strategic important hill Saur-Mogila and has now full overview over the valley to the South-east monitoring Ukrainian forces attempt to re-capture Stepanivka ,Marinivka and Saurivka.

    The hill Saur-Mogila is now a prime target for Ukrainian SU-25s.

    The separatist brings in AA defences North of Saur-Mogila.

    July 16th 2014: One Ukrainian SU-25 is shot down another SU-25  is damaged.

    July 17th 2014 13:20 local time: Mh17 steams ahead...full frontal against seperatists AA defences North of Saur-Mogila and no one reacts!!

     

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