olap
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Posts posted by olap
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I've seen some odd arty too - computer player arty hitting areas of the map that I am nowhere near, or in one case shells that looked (from the puffs of smoke I could see) to actually be falling off map? Wont be a problem though - I wont be wasting any time really playing the computer. This game is all about human on human...
well its not a bug, its a feature... the FO team might have been surpressed
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Thanks man, took me 8 minutes too!
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it was rare to use the rear doors, rather just jump over the side however that made you very obvious and also you were landing in the open.
I had a chance to ride in an M3 a few years ago, and to be honest I used the rear door, as jumping from the side really looked dangerous as it was to high.
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I do think we should reexamine certain restrictions. PF30 should probably be allowed to fire from within a building. It's small enough that practically speaking should't cause problems.
Steve
I see it similar to the soft launch capability of the Javelin. You don't want to stand behind it either when it's fired, and also it still creates some overpressure. Taking into account the large weight of the missile itself, the ammount of the propellant might be larger than in the case of the Panzerfaust 30. Couldn't find any data on that, but someone with backround in physics could enlighten us.
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Quite
This is our conclusion as well. Are we being too stingy with allowances for these things to be fired from inside? Yes. But unfortunately, that appears to be the best course of action for us.
Steve
Are you inconsistent with it? Yes. As far as CMx1 is concerned. Should be there an option for the player to allow or disallow this in the game? Maybe.
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It appears the only real preparation required would be a pair of ear plugs. I have no idea if these were issued.
No they weren't issued, according to this article. http://www.ehow.com/about_6457104_history-development-hearing-protection-devices.html
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And of course the information, while interesting, isn't necessarily relevant since they are different weapons systems. I don't know enough about the WW2 systems to say how closely comparable they are.
Well one tested might be familiar to you: the 90mm recoiless. It is comparable, same system, same method as the bazooka in the game.
The others are producing much larger backblast, even if a TOW can be fired from within a building, please stop telling me a Panzerfaust can't be.
I will enjoy the game with or without this feature. I just want to see this game as close to real life as it can.
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Then again, permanent hearing damage while not life threatening isn't to be casually dismissed.
Sadly happens on a battlefield too often, imagine a round explouding next to you, now thats some noise even if you are unhurt!
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Very interesting find!
My question is how does the backblast of the weapons tested compare to WW2 weapons. If there is not a large difference I'd be tempted to say this may be enough evidence to warrant a change.
The mentioned modern weapons have larger backblast in most cases. There are some modern, mostly German made, anti-armor weapons that produce much lower backblast, however these were not tested, but the super bazooka (90mm) was!
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http://oai.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=ADA244127 that was the source. They used cats and goats, during the tests the only problem was some ear drum rupture in case no hearing protection was used. (Imagine a cat with earplugs lol)
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No citations of any kind in that article. Why should we take their word for it?
I have given a few examples with citations on the use of Panzerfaust from within a building. On the other hand there is one citation that it cannot be used from a building. Who needs to prove what?
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A couple of years ago I've been to the Imperial War Museum in Duxford, which is a great place to visit, lots of planes and tanks. There are a few dioramas as well, one of them includes a T-34/85 an 88, and guess what, a building with a German guy with a Panzerfaust in his hands.
http://www.warmuseums.nl/gal/023gal.htm
And yes, there is no roof on the building, so it doesn't prove that the thing can be fired from a room. I just found it interesting. There was also a text describing, that the Germans used to take out the tanks from above, as the armor was weaker on the top.
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I have played once, only because the local airsofters rented an M3 halftrack for the game. I was riding in it for the most of the game...it was fun...
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Does anyone have this book?
Panzerfaust: And Other German Infantry Anti-Tank Weapons (Schiffer Military Aviation History)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/search?index=books&linkCode=qs&keywords=0887406726
It might have the answers for a few questions.
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Why would it be more important in Market Garden?
If you are talking about the street fighting in Arnhem then it wouldn't matter would it as t\it would be the para's using the PIAT which has no back blast.
Of course then elevation becomes a problem because you cannot aim the PIAT "downhill" as the bomb will fall out.
Panzerfausts were not only used against tanks, but buildings as well. The XXX. Corps had to fight its way through several villages and towns.
As far as I know the PIAT projectile is fixed by a twin flange on the face of the spigot plate during loading, didn't know it falls out.
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It wasn't mentioned how large the room was.
I guess a solution might be a small "explosion" like effect, when firing from inside a house with a Panzerfaust, which might result in injury. I don't think it is a show stopper in CM:BN, but in future modules like Market Garden it will be more important.
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It's not a manual, it's a study on how the German prepared there defences. It says that firing from inside buildings is not possible (it does not say not allowed, but not POSSIBLE) unless it was "a very large room, such as a warehouse, with open windows and doors" and the same goes for the Panzerschreck.
Do you have any other sources by any chance? I could not read the first book you linked?
The Longest Battle: September 1944-February 1945: From Aachen to the Roer and Across on page 115:
"..two Germans appeared in the window, one with a rifle, and one with a panzerfaust. They both fired."
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From the book on German Field fortifications, the panzershreck could only be fired from inside a building like a warehouse due to the backblast and toxic gases released byt he firing. You can see the article here:
Rune
Rune this is a very good book indeed. To my surprise I have found something on page 53, that might be interesting: "Snipers, anti-armour teams with Panzerfaust, and machine gunners were positioned in other buildings as well"
Although it does not say the Panzerfausts were fired from within the buildings, I would suspect they were.
Also Antony Beever writes in his book (Berlin: The Downfall 1945, Penguin Books, 2002, ISBN 0-670-88695-5 p.316-319), that Panzerfausts were fired at Russian tanks from cellar windows.
I'm sure the game will be enjoyable without the ability to fire Panzerfaust from within a building. However if the main goal is to simulate real life it would be wiser to make some more research about the issue, as in the later modules combat in built in areas will be more common (Market Garden).
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The manual didn't allow firing Panzerfausts from confined space for sure. Did it happen? Sure it did. Worth to be included in the game? Well I think so.
Firing a panzerfaust from a bunker is a suicide, from a room with several windows, doors not that much. It will be interesting to see how it is going to influence gameplay in built in areas. Panzerschrecks, bazookas are different though, they had a much larger blackblast.
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First of all, I would like to say hello to all forum members as this is my first post on the BF forum. I've been lurking here around for a while, also played BF titles back in early 2000 and the new CM:SF titles as well.
On the no indoor AT weapons issue:
Panzerfausts were fired from inside buildings and they do not seem to be fatal. One example:
From the book Budapest: Stalingrad of the Waffen SS
"Through a hole in the wall we fired our last Panzerfaust at him. The backfire scorched our uniforms. Then we tossed a few hand grenades and rushed out"
No word about serious injuries, they were able to run after.
We do not need to simulate the blackblow, a small blast will do, I guess it's already included in the game engine. It would be better than not allowing Fausts to be fired from inside buildings. Well it's only my 2 cents, I guess it has been much more thoroughly discussed and tested.
Status update on "Black Sea"
in Combat Mission Shock Force 1
Posted
No offence, but the "little green men" - as they are called sometimes - are carrying RPG-26 disposable launchers, around since the mid 80s. No doubt they're Russians though.
https://twitter.com/cjchivers/status/461540171302076416/photo/1
The camo they are wearing is a special one called Spectre (you can buy it downtown Moscow)
http://sso-mil.ru/catalog/84/22438?sphrase_id=42836