Wilson
-
Posts
17 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Never
Posts posted by Wilson
-
-
I recently played a quick battle - Brit armour v German armour - because I am slowly becoming familiar with British armour and wanted to try some out.
Anyway, after taking out the German Panther VG, PzKpfw IV with my Challenger, and losing my Archer and Churchill AVRE, I managed to get my infantry and my Cromwell 95 mm (I think it was the Cromwell, not Challenger, it was definately not a Churchill) close to the enemy positions.
On top of the hill at the back of the village was a 105 mm equipped StuH.
Not 60 metres apart, they slugged it out. After throwing HE at each other about 5 times each, the gun on my tank gave way.
I cant believe that a 105 mm gun and a 95 mm gun would not cause more damage. It took 5 shots for there to be any damage to the tanks. They were about 55 m apart. It was amazing to watch. I like British tanks a lot now.
Is this realistic? Did the British tanks (esp the Churchill VII) cause the Germans any fear, because in this game I think they come off pretty good even against the good German tanks with 88mm guns.
-
Wow Afrika Korps. Nice story. Could you ask him whether he encountered any Australian troops or what he had heard or thought about these troops please. My great uncle was at Tobruk.Originally posted by reinald@berlin.com:Had the opportunity to interview Mrs. Reinald's Grandpa yesterday. He's been a 88mm FlAK-gunner with the Arikakorps. All I was able to get out of him was that the 88mm didn't bother to aim for weak-points on British tanks cause they'd kill them anyways.
The 37mm and 5cm PAKs did bother to aim for the turret.
He took part in a battle for the Halfaya-pass where his FlAK-coy, according to him, was credited with 25 killed Brit MarkII tanks. He also claimed he was among the first Germans to breach the fortifications of Tobruk. Repatriated due to illness before the Alamein-battle he spent the rest of the war as leader of a 20mm-FlAK-Vierling crew inside Germany.
Thanks.
-
I think this would be interesting, for a game in parcticular. Imagine being aboe to crew this gun, and play everyon one of the crew members.
I too would like to know more about the way these guns were sighted and operated.
-
I recently saw a picture (Dragon models) of a MG42 Heavy Machine Gun team. There were 4 soldiers. One seemed to have a stereoscopic sight, one had binocs, and one was shooting (eye to a rubber padded scope attached to the gun) and the fourth member was laying down feeding the ammo.
Does anyone know anything about the sighting of these guns. Further, I thought that there were 6 men in the team, not 4. This was a heavy machine gun with a tripod mount.
-
What do you mean by this? Im intrigued.Originally posted by M. Bates:CMBB is the better simulation, CMBO is a better game.
PS I used to own a BBC Micro 32K with the ONLY Dr Who game ever made for a computer. What a beauty it had 4 levels.
-
Thanks for the info.Originally posted by CombinedArms:Actually, the tactics for using the German tank hunters is really pretty close the tactics for the Stug (When I said the Stug shouldn't be used as a 'tank hunter,' I was thinking rather loosely of the American Hellcat, which is fast, lightly armored and has a turret, so it can move fluidly around the battlefield but was in American--and CM--parlance a tank destroyer.)
The tactical model for both Stugs and the German AFVs specifically known as tank hunters (that was the German term, though in practice they were better at lurking than hunting) is similar since they have similar characteristics--good guns, good to excellent sloped frontal armor, and no turrets:
1. Stay hulldown.
2. Fire at range.
3. Reverse out of danger.
Typically the German tankhunters have better frontal armor than the Stug, and that affects the way you manage them, but they all work in the same basic way. Doctrinally, the distinction between assault guns and tankhunters is the assualt guns (first seen early in the war) were for supporting infantry attacks and tank hunters (appearing later in the war when the German armor was being pushed back) had a defensive role and slightly better frontal armor for facing down tanks. But in practical terms, the actual situations you find them in and the tactics you use with them are quite similar. It was not at all unusual in real life nor a CM scenario to find an assault gun on defense or a tank hunter used in an attack.
I played Chance Encounter as Germans on full realism.
I used my StuGs the way suggested. One of them I moved quickly to the far left of the German flank and turned it near the forest to shoot at the US from the side.
I won.
My 3 StuGs survived and I wasted all of the US tanks with them (not with the Pnzrshreks).
Now I can really respect this tank.
-
Thanks nice answer CombinedArms.Originally posted by CombinedArms:Stugs were one of the most common AFVs on the West (and East) front and turn up in scenarios constantly, so becoming a Panther specialist won't help much if you're interested in learning to work with all the Axis equipment, or if you want to play historical scenarios successfully.
BloodyBucket has clearly outlined the correct technique in using them. Let me add a few facts and observations:
1. The StugIII is actually an assault gun, not a tank hunter--its original job was to aid in infantry assaults and earlier models had a short, low velocity 75mm howitzer, a bit better vs. infantry but not much good for hunting tanks. The StugIII has an upgraded gun, an excellent, long, high-velocity AT weapon (also 75mm) so it's good at killing tanks (can kill Pershings from the front), but it's better at shooting them from hull down positons at range, not at hunting them across the battlefield.
2. The StugIII has pretty good frontal armor--a Sherman 75 can kill it sometimes, but not every time. Maybe 30-40% of the shots will bounce at all but close range. The Stug's gun is more accurate at range and a good deal more deadly than the Sherman 75. So stand off and fire from a distance, present a small target from your hull down position, and try to hit the Sherman before it hits you.
3. Though its frontal armor's pretty good, the Stug's side armor is weak and it's particularly vulnerable to flank attacks because it also lacks a turret. So don't lead your attack with a Stug. In supporting an infantry attack, leave it behind in a overwatch position and fire at trouble when it appears. The same goes for defense. Stay hull down, fire at targets at range, and reverse away from trouble. On defense, plan your reverse-away routes before placing your Stugs.
4. Stugs function best in teams (this is true of most AFVs but particularly true of those without turrets.) If possible, use Stugs in pairs or more to multiply their firepower on hostile tanks and to provide flank protection in case of a side attack.
Stugs are cheaper than Shermans, have about equally good frontal armor, and a considerably better gun. If you can learn to maximize their advantages and minimize their weaknesses, they can be very effective.
Are there any other secret tips you can give? I mean, I agree that this assault gun was very common. Panthers were used in spearhead panzer attacks, and only sometimes in the infantry support role.
I am a fan of this tank because it's historical.
Tell me also, in what way was the 75 mm gun superior to that of the Sherman? I would appreciate any further comment you could make.
Also, when you say it wasnt a tank destroyer I agree. I got that wrong. But what is the difference in the way tank destroyers were used? I mean, given that tank destroyers usually were turretless, were particular tactics used.
I.E. When you say "but it's better at shooting them from hull down positons at range, not at hunting them across the battlefield", what is the difference between these tactics, did tank hunters use both or just the latter. What does it mean to "hunt tanks accross the battlefield"? You know a lot about this so I appreciate your comments.
[ November 21, 2002, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: Wilson ]
-
Yeah thanks for the replies.
Commander, StuGs were used a lot and are historical, expecially in support of Waffen and Heer line infantry.
Panthers were not so common. So I don't want to be gamey and use Panthers when I should be using StuGs.
Any other tips? I mean were these tanks historically this vulnerable? I suppose if there was no enemy armour it would be OK in this game. How did the StuGs historically fare against the standard Sherman with the 75 mm gun?
-
Does anyone know how to use these tank hunters and survive?
I am sure that when used properly, a StuG can be very effective. Obviously not as effective as a Jagdpanther, but still effective.
What do I do to allow my StuG to survive. My StuGs seemed to get knocked out a lot.
-
I quite like the ugly grey boxes. I dont really want to see what the enemy tank or contact is until and unless it is identified.
That's the way the game is already. I quite like it.
-
I don't really care much for CMBB after playing the demo. This is more to do with my interest in the Western Front than anything else.
Give me the Tiger 1 in CMBO on the Western Front, optics or not.
What exactly do the optics in CMBB do that the optics in CMBO dont? I refer to the example of 16% hit chance with the IS-2 and the Tiger 1.
With your Tiger, all that matters is that you use it with lots of infantry IN FRONT and dont expose its rear. Have plenty of reserve PnzrGndrs at its flanks and riding on its back and keep it some distance from the enemy positions.
You should experience happy hunting that way. After all it is a very interesting anmd remarkable tank, even if a little outdated by 1944.
-
Have you tried this in CMBO? Do you find the Tigers just as sturdy as in CMBB at that range?Originally posted by Lindan:I'm playing a massive tank battle in CMBB right now. The final days of Zitadelle, the Kursk battles. The Tiger platoon is up on a far away hill, but they will destroy everything they can see on the whole map. 1-1,5 km away they will shrug off tremendous amounts of punishment. That are the engagement ranges where they really shine.
PS what russian tanks were you up against?
-
Hi guys. I read Jason's post and it was excellent.
He doesn't mention the Escort Platoon however. Do you guys know what that was specifically used for?
-
I have trouble in CMBO using machine guns to cause casualties on infantry unless the infantry are running within about 100 or 200 metres and are in an open field. The rest of the time they are good for suppression only.
Is this accurate? I would like to think that it is. Also, are there any MG34s at all in CMBO? I'm yet to find one.
I know there has been some debate about this. But when I played the CMBB demo I didnt find the MG's that much more effective, it was about the same.
Are the way they are modelled in CMBO accurate?
-
As for the tanks that were shown in that episode of Band of Brothers after Easy company had taken Carentan, go to the HBO Band of Brothers website.
There you can play a small realplayer video about how they made the tanks. They talk about how they used a T-34 chassis for the Tiger (which was also used in SPR).
Also, I think the guy in the rp video says there was a Stug and a Panzerkampfwagen 5?
What exactly was that tank, it looked from the gun flange to be a Jagdpanzer to me.
-
I was playing a game and lot of my Shermans and Stuarts (and Hellcats) had been taken out by the various StuGs, Panthers and a Jagdtiger that had come into the battle.
I had an M8 Greyhound up my sleeve, which I managed to manouver around the side of the enemy. Twice it fired at the Jagdtiger from about the german tank destroyer's 3 or 4 o'clock. Twice, the round shattered against the Jagdtiger's hull. It started to turn around to see what was annoying it.
Then, lo and behold, MY GREYHOUND TAKES OUT THE JAGDTIGER!!!!! It said that it had hit a weak point in the hull.
I should have taken a screenshot but being on a deserted Pacific Island, I couldn't. I thought I would just share this little triumph with you all!
Slugfest - Cromwell 95 mm v StuH
in Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord
Posted
Nice posts.
Do you guys realise that it took about 5 HE rounds each before there was any damage to any tank, namely to my tanks 95mm gun? The tanks were less than 60 metres apart!!!
Also, why would a Churchill fear a Panther and not a Tiger. Tiger has a 88mm gun, Panther only a 75mm gun.