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Holyman

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Posts posted by Holyman

    Tiles / Hexes

    in Strategic Command 2 Blitzkrieg and Weapons and Warfare

    Posted

    Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

    Thanks for the follow ups, especially to first time poster Capt Andrew for breaking his Lurker status. It is sad when an otherwise dedicated gamer loses perspective and goes off the deep end. No paranoia on my part... I've seen dozens of people destroy their own credibility in the same way. Sorry it most often happens in public where everybody has to bare witness to it.

    Whether you like tiles or believe that hexes are sanctioned by God and to use otherwise risks burning in Hell, I don't really care. But start forgetting basic manners and simple respect for the very persons responsible for making the games and environment that has brought us together... well, that is something that needs addressing. We've found from past experience that sometimes a good "spanking" is necessary to end the childish behavior and get things back on a productive track. With that in mind...

    Now that it is clear to all that SC2 will be tile based, hopefully those who disagree can be polite and respectful enough to withhold judgement until they have at least played the demo. Afterall, is there any other way to know if a GAME is good than to actually play it? I know of no other way.

    In the mean time I would suggest that the pro-hex crowd refocus their energy into discussing ways to overcome some of the mistakes other game developers have made with tile based systems. After all, any system, be it hex or tile, has its limitations and potential pitfalls. Constructive discussion might be helpful to Hubert. Telling him he has broken the Hardcore's 1st Commandment "Tho Shall Not Use Tiles" really isn't :D

    Steve

    Mr Jeckyl and Mr Hyde must have been on Sci-Fi channel last night...

    Lets just say that this thread turned out like North Corea since you spoke out loud.

    I can always change my nick or just buzz outa here, but you will still be "Steve@Battlefront.com" so i for sure understand that you try to restore your own credibility around here with that little speach...

    "Dont speak directly to him - lets make a speach and talk to the others about him so that i can show off my official battlefront status once more".

    bye

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    Tiles / Hexes

    in Strategic Command 2 Blitzkrieg and Weapons and Warfare

    Posted

    Originally posted by Moon:

    Nothing can be debated more hotly than viewpoints which are nearly equal, but pointing in opposite directions. smile.gif This alone shows me that there is no real advantage between hexes and tiles. Wait, there might be one - people are more used to hexes? :rolleyes:

    Holyman, I won't answer for Steve, he can speak for himself, or decide for himself that he won't reply. But I tell you - if I were him, I'd do the latter.

    Somebody who says stuff like

    "According to me..." (heh? A classic way to legitimate and "enlarge" your own opinion, taken to the extreme, so that it becomes bizarre), or

    "I don't like change that is uncalled for and I don't want" (Big surprise, I don't like stuff I don't want usually as well. But - why is it uncalled for? Because you don't want it?), or

    "It is clearly so that more wargamers can live with hexes than those that can live with tiles." (according to... you?)

    ...is pretty much useless to debate. This doesn't mean that you're not entitled to your opinion. You are. And you did state what that was, in the forums that we have made for exactly this purpose. We noted your opinion, too, and we stated our views. And we just happen to disagree.

    Are you not used to people, yes, even game designers disagreeing with you? Sorry to hear that. Thank God we have the balls to sometimes disagree even with the *majority* of PC players, because if not, you'd be playing SC-the Real Time Strategy game right now.

    Martin

    Well, Martin,

    First of all thanks for choosing to use another name than BATTLEFRONT.COM. It feels kinda nice to talk to someone on the same level. So ill have alot easier to respect what you have to say to me. I guess you have taken a minimum crascourse in psycology smile.gif

    Secondly:

    The answer to your questions is in your quotes of me as well as Steves quotes. I speak TO everyone. I tried to raise MY issues with this game. (ok i used some generalisations to get there but i dont call people members of secret anti-crowd organisations at least cause that was the MOTHER of generalisations). What i expect from a company "official" is arguments and explanations. What i dont expect is my messages broken down by massive quoting and each line stamped on by someone that seems to have built up a pressure for some time.

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    Tiles / Hexes

    in Strategic Command 2 Blitzkrieg and Weapons and Warfare

    Posted

    Originally posted by KDG:

    In a forum such as this, programmers, publishers, etc. should be able to speak their mind just as we do. We criticize, why not them. Opinion, fact, likes and dislikes, its all here.
    I was just kinda shocked to get that from BATTLEFRONT.COM, as Steve in this case uses the official stamp of this company to tell me that i am something "they" disrespect and couldn't care less about. I am one of those monsters that eats good game designs for breakfast and ****s them out in hexes.
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    Tiles / Hexes

    in Strategic Command 2 Blitzkrieg and Weapons and Warfare

    Posted

    Originally posted by Jim Boggs:

    Holyman

    Your name isn't Lewis is it?

    Let's check the Numbers!

    Okay on this side we got:

    1) Hubert Cater-One game published (SC), one game total success. 100%

    2) BFC-Three Games published (CMBO, CMBB, CMAK), three games total successes. 100%

    Okay, on the other side:

    Holyman-No games published, no games success. 0%

    Hmmmm.....

    OK, i get the message... then only experienced game designers should be allowed to speak in here. Are you one of those ? ;)
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    Tiles / Hexes

    in Strategic Command 2 Blitzkrieg and Weapons and Warfare

    Posted

    Steve,

    OMG! i cant believe im reading this! I hope you dont carry the official voice of battlefront.com as the signature implies. Is this the official stand and attitude that battlefront has towards the people that says things that they dont like? A game developer that seems to talk in negative, direspectful phrases towards the part of their customers that want to speak about what they want from the game? People that have spent maybe hundreds of hours playing their game and wants to say something about how they think it should be in the next version?

    Beeing "an arrogant customer" i have to say that this tops everything i have read in any forum for years. I am dead serious. You are certainly not "da man" when it comes to understanding people and customer relations.

    Major wake-up call (like a air compressor horn or something) -

    This anti-crowd of yours only exists in your own head. It is probably something you have developed over the years to cope with the people that you need to classify as morons in your version of how the world should be runned. You need to seriously think about why it is that you have this urge to jump those who dont share your opinion. We are all individuals in this forum and there is no conspiracy against you or any other company that wants to renew their smelly game or whatever. There are just personal opinions.

    And if you are ever responding to this, please keep it short so that i can find the strenght to read through it.

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    Polls about isometric vs top-down and hexes vs tiles

    in Strategic Command 2 Blitzkrieg and Weapons and Warfare

    Posted

    I really hope that Hubert and the others does not mind if i do a couple of polls at this stage to sort out what the forum residents want for SC2 regarding these two issues? Also please excuse the popups that might occur when taking the polls...

    _____________________________________

    Hexes or tiles?

    http://holyman.freepolls.com/cgi-bin/polls/001/poll_center.htm

    _____________________________________

    Isometric or top-down view?

    http://holyman.freepolls.com/cgi-bin/polls/002/poll_center.htm

    _____________________________________

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    Tiles / Hexes

    in Strategic Command 2 Blitzkrieg and Weapons and Warfare

    Posted

    Bill101,

    Your reasoning is strange to me.

    I have tried dozens and dozens of both tiled and hexed games. Am i not allowed to have my own preference?

    No ideas are new in SC2, all of what the genre has possibly to offer has been explored in hundreds of games and i can guarantee i have tried the greater part of them. (Useless info: My first encounter with this kind of games was "NATO commander" on my C64 back in the cold war days of 1984)

    To imply that i am afraid of change is not the right way to put it: I dont like change that is uncalled for and i dont want.

    Bill101 says:

    "But any amount of argument, without the experience of having actually played the new game, is not going to convince."

    By using this argument you can never influence anything that is not already built. Try using this theory when building a house of anything else for that matter... Also, If i have been in a couple a hundred houses i can guarantee you that i have a rough picture of how i want my house to look.

    In my view we "the customers" that care how this game will end up, are encouraged to react on the new game. Otherwise they may shut down these threads and look another way.

    I believe that what RobRas says is partly the truth when it comes to influencing the creation of this game. The sad truth as i experience it is that those who are controlling the creation of this game has started to walk down a path that they no longer can turn back from. We are going to get tiles and isometric view.

    Can you remember that ANYONE has EVER mentioned that they want tiles and isometric view in SC2? No? So my conclusion is that they do not focus on their current customers, but on making a more populistic version to try to satisfy others than those who resides within this forum.

    I hope they succeed, but its a dary business.

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    Tiles / Hexes

    in Strategic Command 2 Blitzkrieg and Weapons and Warfare

    Posted

    Mainly to Steve (Semi-god)

    simple rules of life:

    1. Do not fix what is not broken

    2. What you dont do today you will not have to be fixed tomorrow

    3. When trying to prepare for tomorrow - use the rear mirror

    4. If you cant take care of your existing customers you are not ready to make new

    According to me the most devastating thing one can do is to change things for the sake of change itself. It is clearly so that more wargamers can live with hexes than those that can live with tiles. You havent heard anyone say that "i will not buy this game if its not tile based" have you? SC2 will never reach the top shelves as does NO turnbased WWII strategy wargame, so i think you will gain by realising that you are constructing your games for your customers - mainly the core wargamers. To construct this game with the focus on making it sell more - to focus on money instead of on the customer itself - will most likely fail. It is STILL a WWII sim even if you make it look and even behave like CIV.

    The best thing you could have done would have been to ask your faithful SC1 and potential SC2 customers by a simple questionnaire what main changes/inprovement they want. Strategic wargamers are a conservative bunch for a reason - they mainly want playability and the possiblity to explore what-ifs?

    Steve wrote: "If most people think it stinks, they keep their money and Hubert has to live on SPAM and generic soda until he makes a new and better game".

    Could it be that Hubert have had to listen to a "mini-retail monster" and not primarily the customers?

    And i think you said it yourself: Tiles is not the key to if a game is sucessful or not. So my question is - why did you change it then? My guess is that you want to simply broaden your potential customer base and think that looking somewhat like the mighty CIV will make it more appealing. But guess what, CIV is not a success due to the tiles or graphics, its because its a great tool for the simulation of history (even if it is a populistic one). And it reaches a hughe crowd because many people are intrigued by history in general. WWII sims are a small branch of the sim market and i can promise you that it does not serve an "easily widened" customer base. But you must know this with your experience.

    Now your faithful customers are going to have to wait extra time for something they majority dont care about or even worse - do not want.

    [ April 21, 2004, 04:37 AM: Message edited by: Holyman ]

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    Tiles / Hexes

    in Strategic Command 2 Blitzkrieg and Weapons and Warfare

    Posted

    Well, Bill101:

    i prefer hexes and this is based on my experience. It is really simple - i wanted a "High command 2"! In my eyes it was a brilliant game that deserved more. When i saw SC i got extatic, but in the end it lacked some features that is important to me when it comes to wargaming, so i had to wait for SC2 to get the perfect sequel (i thought..)

    See now why I am disappointed? I will still have to look for MY perfect wargame and i cannot se anything else that is worth hoping for.

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    Tiles / Hexes

    in Strategic Command 2 Blitzkrieg and Weapons and Warfare

    Posted

    Bit of a disappointment really...

    Hexes, stacking, expanded map and the focus on strategy (as in resource controlling) was what i was looking forward to in SC2.

    The thing is that a hex-strategy game on grand strategy level was the gap SC1 was filling and what also SC2 should be about. You were on the right course with SC1 it just needed to get "deeper" to be perfected. But this is a common mistake when developing games if you ask me. To overthink. If its not too late please reconcider...

    sorry....

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