AcePylut
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Posts posted by AcePylut
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Thanks for the help Prinz, much appreciated.
Now, to figure out how to buy those Tiger I's in 1941 heheheh. j/k
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New to PBEM, and am going to setup a quick battle for the first time with my brother. We’ve only played the stock battles against each other.
When setting up the game… there comes a point after selecting the points where you go and “buy” your troops.
If I’m Axis and setting up the game, do I have to purchase the Allied troops, or does the Allies do that when I send them the first file?
I.E. Will I have to have my bro tell me what units he wants during the setup – or does he get to purchase them without me knowing what he’s going to get.
Curious, because I can see potential for abuse, if one is not honest, and one guy has to buy troops for both sides.
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That conclusion relies on the assumption that all those German tanks were knocked out by enemy action.
This assumption is not proven.
The conclusion drawn is not valid.
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IMHO - the immobilization modelling is just fine. If you're worried about it, then don't buy tanks during setup.
Spending all your points on a Tiger, then claiming that the immobliizations are game-breaking because you spent all your cash on a Tiger and it broke down just doesn't fly. I call that bad money management.
It really seems from reading this thread, amongst others, that the players have forgotten the 'game' in favor of the 'numbers'.
Like someone said in this or another thread, how many Germans grab the StuG (if memory serves) during QB's in 1943 (or '42?) vs other more applicable German tanks, because it has that nice gun and frontal plate armor that the russians "can't beat"? You're playing the numbers not the game.
When such actions occur, that tells me that players aren't "'simulating' battle on the East Front", they are playing the game to boost their ladder standings. Ghey.
So that's why I pretty much only play CM against my older brother. We play it for fun, not for ladder points. We play it to "pretend" that we are back in 1941 nearing the gates of Moscow, or defending the banks of the Volga, or storming the Vistula, where equipment was not as reliable as we "think" it is, where Tigers and StuG's didn't roam the battlefield in the thousands 2 days after release from production, where the crappy T26 might be all you had... etc.
I thought about playing against other people, but then I read some "tactics" that say "put your guys back 26 yards in this type of woods, because at 27 yards you can't see out of the woods (numbers might be a couple yards long or short, you get the point). That in a nutshell is ultimately gamey crap that I don't like, but know that it can't be avoided after a game has been out this long. Put em in the woods or don't, but shees poring for hours over exactly where that "26yard" point is... time to take a step back!
Anyhow, immobilization happens. Sometimes they occur at the worst times. Sometimes I lose because my tank became immobilized. Sometimes my brother loses because it happens. But such occurances are rare, and usually the result of a desparation move because the battle is almost alreadly lost. It happens, worried about it then don't buy tanks, otherwise, get get over it and deal.
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To "AcePilot" - sure, send me an email and we can get a game started.
I can do about 1 turn a day, except on weekends, where I can do 1 turn over the weekend.
I'm not that good, I've only played about 15 or so games - so i don't know all the tricks the elite players do.
I don't wish to play a "10 tigers vs 20 Shermans" CC3 style all tank battle. I prefer to play games that are infantry heavy. I don't feel that I'm good enough to play such gamey situations as King Tigers vs Pershings or something. I'd like to keep the battle as close to the common historical situation as possible.
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Hey you stole my internet handle!!!! NOT FAIR. I DEMAND SATISFACTION!
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Where's my NKVD to kill off your Csar's and Tzaritsa from this thread...
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Ace - member, not to be confused with me, Acepylut - Junior member - soon to be a big time CM asswhooper
If I knew about this game when it first came out, I'd have been all over it. Unfortunately, I only found out about it 6 weeks ago. As soon as I read it, I was digging through my wallet for a credit card.
BTW - great game! I like it a lot.
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How did this thread go from being about executing my uninspired troops to a discussion on Polish Cavalry charges?
Hey, I'm sure USSR cavalry would charge tanks if they had a little NKVD inspiration. Heck, I'll take lances against tanks over feet and hands against tanks any day.
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Originally posted by Vergeltungswaffe:
Ace,
Don'tcha wish SFC2 worked as well as CMBO? Your busy on both of these boards, lol.
Rebel Yell (on the Taldren Forums)
LOL
I see you posted in the Enemy at the Gates thread over there.Now if the Klingons only had NKVD Bird's of Prey to kill any Kling that tried to run from a battle......
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Originally posted by Kingfish:
Ok, follow along...
Company of conscript russians attack German defenses. 1/3 are killed, 1/3 are pinned and the last 1/3 rout to the rear. NKVD troops gun down the runners. Now your force is down to a 1/3 and your global morale suffers as well. The combination of low global morale and being pinned under German fire causes your remaining men to rout. NKVD troops gun down them as well, leaving you with...
[This message has been edited by Kingfish (edited 03-21-2001).]
Well, if the 1/3rd that's routing sees a few comrades get gunned down by the commissars, then maybe the leftovers of that 1/3rd will get the moral/fanatic bonus. We'll say that 1/3rd of the 1/3rd routing units gets executed, the rest get a morale / fanatic boost. Now, my attack that's been failing has renewed vigor and I can attack with a greater morale/fanatic bonus, albiet with 2/3rds-1/9ths of my troops.
Instead of a failed attack in your scenario- which will happen regardless of what the USSR player can do - I now still have a chance to win.
Also, if these NKVD troops are allowed in the game, perhaps if the Germans were to eliminate the NKVD then all of the Russian units would suffer a morale loss due to the fact that they know they wont get shot (yet) if they run away. That might make CM2 more balanced.
Sure - it's a desperation tactic, but if it works then I'll get a Gold Star on the Fridge from good ole Joe.
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Originally posted by M Hofbauer:
AcePylut,
I didn't want to believe it until now but it seems you really are serious about this. "Battalion of NKVD" - sheeesh, you do know the size of a battalion, don't you?
Offwhite,
you're dead on. I agree fully. Unfortunately, it seems for some people that executing part is exactly what they want to see.
I used the word "batallion" because that's what I'm used to seeing in the history books. Given the scope of CM, I could see having maybe a company (if it's a big battle) or an "NKVD Squad" (inherent in the squad would be a Commissar and a Machine Gun) if it's a small battle.
Like I said, if I'm on a human wave attack and it begins to fail because troops are panicing, then I will - in the gamey spirit of CM2 - begin shooting those troops to prevent widespread panic among all of my troops.
Executing troops may be evil and not the Western Way of doing things, but we aren't talking a "western style" of war. If 100 soldiers have to be executed to win a battle and defeat the hun.... gimme a rifle and gimme some ammo.... it's better that 100 cowards die than 1000 brave soldiers. It's all for the greater good of the USSR.
URRRRAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
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Originally posted by Dittohead:
Just why in the hell is everybody in such a hurry to kill their own troops.
Games will not be won or lost depending on how many of your own troops you can gun down.
If killing my troops helps me to kill more Germans faster, then I got two things to say....
Gimme a rifle
Pass the ammo.
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Originally posted by Kingfish:
Simple question: Whats to prevent the gamey tactic of automatically withdrawing your troops on turn 1, have a few shot by the NKVD, and have the rest become fanatics for the rest of the battle?
Good point - perhaps they could code the following triggers into the game....
Your NKVD can only target units that are broken/panicing/fleeing (this trigger would be up for discussion). If they shoot troops that aren't any of the above then the rest of the troops don't get the morale boost or the ability to go fanatic. Something along these lines might prevent the "execute a squad before going into battle to boost moral" gameyness tactic.
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Why do I want to see this? If I'm making a human wave attack with a bunch of semi-armed conscripts, I want "morale boosters" sitting 200 yards behind the line of advance ready to "increase the will to fight" lest my attack fail due to insufficient fighting spirit.
As far as I know, this was a lot more common practice in the Soviet Union than it was in Germany.
I would like to see it modeled in CM2.
Perhaps a batallion of troops is too many given the scope of CM, how about a few special "NKVD" units like a couple of machine guns, a few HQ units, and maybe few squads. These NKVD units would be able to target their own men. IF the eliminate a broken allied squad, all 'friendly' soldiers in sight of this get a morale and combat boost with the possibility of maybe going fanatic. Ahha!!! Perhaps a company of NKVD.
Why did I shoot prisoners in CC3? It seemed (no coded or data or anything to back this up) that if I shot prisoners the enemy troops would be more prone to go fanatic and yell out their "Urrah" fanatic scream. I liked hearing that during the game, so I got into the habit of killing the prisoners. Plus, it was for the psychological effect on the person I was playing against (we'd get mad at each other for shooting troops that surrendered)
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A common practice in the Red Army was to place NKVD batallions behind attacking Soviet troops with the express purpose of shooting any Soviet that fled from the battlefield. I assume that this makes the average Red Army soldier a little less prone to break and run, so I ask this....
Will CM2 allow us to purchase NKVD troops and shoot our own men that are broken or panicking? After I shoot my own men then maybe CM2 could model this by giving the troops that are left a bonus to their morale (or a penalty to their morale which makes them more suspectable to capture)?
In CC3 I was always fond of shooting enemy troops that surrendered, and now perhaps I get the glory of shooting my own men in the name of the Mother Russia.
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Any chance of seeing the "Crazy Ivan" leader from CC3?
U know, the single commander that cost some 300 points? He carried a machine gun, a bazooka, a flamethrower, a rifle (scoped), a submachine gun, a pistol, and a demo charge.
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Instead of focusing on 1 part of the battle, the director tries to give show the battle of Stalingrad thru the eyes of a "fire brigade". The main characters (SturmPionere's they were) basically go thru every horror that happened in the battle, from the street fighting to the steppe fighting to being thrown in a work battalion, having to execute people, etc etc.
I have the dvd, and it's worth watching, but after the first 1.5 hours the movie really slows down and gets boring while everyone starves, but that's the way the battle went.
This movie "Enemy at the Gates" that's coming out looks really good, it's based on the book of the same name but I think the plot will follow the book "War of the Rats" a lot more.
All in all, I'd recommend Stalingrad to watch (don't forget, it came out in 93) and purchase if you want.
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300 level Russian Training Scenarios
in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin
Posted
Ridiculous. A guy comes on a praises a scenario, and gets blasted by it's designer as a "commie thug". Shees JC, pull the stick out of your ass.