GerryCMBB Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Hello: In a scenario, not QB, I moved some guys over a barbed-wire fence and the waypoints were close to the edge but not that close. The unit exited. As far as I can see there are no Exit Objectives and I never wanted them to exit. Frustrating. They were rattled but were moving according to the waypoints. Any thoughts. Gerry 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Did the little arrows show up, so that you definately know they exited? If so, my guess is that the exit zones were hidden. Re-read the briefing carefully for clues. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 AFAIK the _only_ ways for units to exit the map are 1) An exit zone 2) Buddy aid makes them disappear. You can't just drive/walk units off the map, right? GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerryCMBB Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 Hello Jon: Yes, the green arrows showed up. Looking at the briefing again it said to hold the Amis for as long as possible, kill his armor, and protect your heavy weapons. I must say I really dislike the idea of hidden exit zones. If troops exit are they exempt from the casualty counts? Thanks, Gerry Did the little arrows show up, so that you definately know they exited? If so, my guess is that the exit zones were hidden. Re-read the briefing carefully for clues. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 H I must say I really dislike the idea of hidden exit zones. If troops exit are they exempt from the casualty counts? Gerry It's the opposite of this. Unless they exit, they count as a casualty. And - you are correct - you have no way of knowing unless the briefing tells you which troops this applies to. This is a real nightmare for the player unless the scenario designer does a really good job of the briefing. GaJ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerryCMBB Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 It just got worse. I moved some unit into a nice spot in the bocage and guess what, they aren't where they used to be! Aarrgghhh. Gerry 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I must say I really dislike the idea of hidden exit zones. Justifiably. What scenario was this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Looking at the briefing again it said to hold the Amis for as long as possible, kill his armor, and protect your heavy weapons. That sounds like, maybe, you have to exit your heavy wpns. Unless you don't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerryCMBB Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 I am sorry. I guess experienced players would get this in the briefing. I didn't and couldn't see there were exit exits, obviously as they are hidden. Problem is I have spent time on this and now it's maybe hopeless. I think there is nothing wrong with designers spelling things out. It is a briefing after all. Of course, they can choose to do what they like. But for a starting player with one of the stock missions, it is very frustrating. Gerry That sounds like, maybe, you have to exit your heavy wpns. Unless you don't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I am sorry. I guess experienced players would get this in the briefing. I didn't and couldn't see there were exit exits, obviously as they are hidden. My post was sympathetic to your plight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 A thought occurs - have you got objectives hidden? An exit point counts as a terrain objective. I think the hot-key combo to display/hide them is alt-j 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Still no word about the scenario name? Theoretically 'known to neither' could've been selected in the editor, or no objective name typed in just to keep from cluttering the horizon with labels, but that would be a somewhat odd choice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerryCMBB Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 Thanks. I didn't get that. Sometimes it is hard to tell with electronic communication. Gerry My post was sympathetic to your plight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I'm going to hazard a guess and say that he's playing 'Buying the Farm' as the German side. It has a very small map and a time limit to match. There is a one-line exit zone at the back of the German position to allow those broken or routing German units from piling up against the east board edge awaiting slaughter by advancing US forces. I HATED seeing that happen when I was playtesting this mission. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerryCMBB Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 Got objectives on. Gerry A thought occurs - have you got objectives hidden? An exit point counts as a terrain objective. I think the hot-key combo to display/hide them is alt-j 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerryCMBB Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 Hello: Meant to put it in a previous email. It's Buying the Farm. Gerry Still no word about the scenario name? Theoretically 'known to neither' could've been selected in the editor, or no objective name typed in just to keep from cluttering the horizon with labels, but that would be a somewhat odd choice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerryCMBB Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 Hello: Just wondering how it would work then. Is it a case of Broken/Panic units are near the edge so they take off running and thus head off the map? And in this case they wouldn't count against me for casualties? But I couldn't purposely exit them? The TacAI is choosing to do the force preservation? Thanks to all for your help, Gerry I'm going to hazard a guess and say that he's playing 'Buying the Farm' as the German side. It has a very small map and a time limit to match. There is a one-line exit zone at the back of the German position to allow those broken or routing German units from piling up against the east board edge awaiting slaughter by advancing US forces. I HATED seeing that happen when I was playtesting this mission. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 When you're playing US v the AI, you will find a lot of German units routing away from advancing US forces. Without the EXIT zone, those units just sit uselessly on the board edges until the US player comes and shoots them up. So I added a hidden EXIT zone along that board edge that would allow these routers to exit to safety depriving the US player of the casualty points for them. The EXIT objective will allow you to exit any German unit regardless of its condition. With one exception, the AI side is scripted to sit in its opening positions. They will only abandon them if they break under fire and start moving towards the board edge where they can rout to safety. (Sorry. A tad distracted as my wife has just come back in and is quite excited about something. I'll answer your questions later.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Just wondering how it would work then. Is it a case of ... No, he's used it so that broken and routed units don't end up like fish-in-a-barrel against the side of the map. Instead they'll flee to the map edge, then exit. Which is fine, as far as it goes. The downside it that it further restricts what is already restricted flank-to-flank mobility for the Germans, 'steals' forces when you try to move them along the map edge (as you discovered), and turns what used to be a DESTROY unit objective for the US player into an EXIT unit objective for the German player without telling the German player about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Back again. There's not much more I can say about this. I finished it off for another tester after I finished work on Montebourg. The EXIT zone was my addition, which I put in for the reasons I explained above, as were the AI plans. But other than to record the equipment changes in the OBs I made, I left the original briefings in the mission. (I HATE writing briefings!) So, the omission of the hidden EXIT location in the briefing slipped by. My bad and I'm sorry if it has spoiled your fun! My focus in the time we had remaining was on making the mission playable and testing the new AI plans (a HUGE amount of work as there are 5 German plans and 3 US plans all had to be tested by me alone with no help from anyone). I am far more rigorous when I'm designing my own mission though... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Radley Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Paper Tiger, I just finished playing "Buying the Farm". I played as the Allies and had a great time, even though I only got a tactical vic. Good job on the scenario. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerryCMBB Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 Hello Paper Tiger: While I probably did a bit of a rant, my questions are more about understanding what is going on in the game and/or scenario I am playing. This helps me enjoy the game a lot more. (Was I supposed to exit the heavy weapons btw.). I am still enjoying the scenario and trying to learn as much as I can about the game. The game can be so immersive at times. Some of my troops running to save themselves and I am glued to the screen almost praying they will make it to safety. While I am not a playtester, I appreciate the massive amount of work that goes into it. As players we just play a scenario once say. And that takes a lot of time! So kudos to all designers and playtesters for their contribution to the game. My preference would be to opt for clear objectives as the mission usually challenges us enough when we know what we are supposed to be doing. Thanks, Gerry Back again. There's not much more I can say about this. I finished it off for another tester after I finished work on Montebourg. The EXIT zone was my addition, which I put in for the reasons I explained above, as were the AI plans. But other than to record the equipment changes in the OBs I made, I left the original briefings in the mission. (I HATE writing briefings!) So, the omission of the hidden EXIT location in the briefing slipped by. My bad and I'm sorry if it has spoiled your fun! My focus in the time we had remaining was on making the mission playable and testing the new AI plans (a HUGE amount of work as there are 5 German plans and 3 US plans all had to be tested by me alone with no help from anyone). I am far more rigorous when I'm designing my own mission though... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Don't worry sir. None of us want our work to stress-out or otherwise confuse the customers. Leaving the hidden exit zone out of the briefing was a bad oversight on my part. I usually lay out all the victory conditions very clearly for the players in my missions. I guess by the time I got round to doing this, I was 'tired and shagged out after a long squalk'. The 'protect your heavy weapons' instruction in the briefing was from the original briefing. I subbed out the original Flak 88 with the 50mm AT gun and the 75mm INF gun (I love those). Use them to kill the enemy but protect them well as ou'll have virtually no chance to exit them. BTW, you should try playing this mission as the Americans. It's a lot more fun 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontpanic! Posted August 15, 2020 Share Posted August 15, 2020 I am playing this as the Germans against another human player. I just found out about the hidden exit zone and lost a full team I as moving from my left flank to reinforce my buildings. Very frustrating for me as I would have plotted the moves so far back if I knew there was a chance of losing them by exiting ‘I guess this is War.” 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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