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US Entry- To attack the US NM morale hexes or not?


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This is a question about strategy:

Is it worth to attack the US NM hexes with subs/raiders compared to the NM gain the Germans get for using unrestricted warfare or not? In other words, do you guys attack them even though they cause the US level to gain or not? How much do the Germans gain for it?

Generally, what are the preconditions for the US to enter? Is doing nothing an option for the German (doing nothing meaning, not attacking those NM hexes and no unrestricted warfare) or does the US always enter after a certain time? What are the calculations behind the US entry?

Thanks

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Well I played a game where I managed to keep the US war readiness at 6% for the whole game, they joined the war in the summer of 1917 anyway, so I could have used unrestricted sub warfare to keep the German morale higher, and wasted MMP's on diplomacy directed at keeping them out. I don't know the exact date, it might be variable, but apparently the USA will enter the war in 1917 no matter what. I'm playing the Entente in another game now and am loosing very badly, and havn't been watching the replays, the USA joined without me even noticing it, don't know how long I've been ignoring them, they were somewhere around 30% or 40% at the time.

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Hi Sharkman

Are the games you mention prior to the 1.02 patch?

Only some significant changes were made in 1.02 to make US entry far more dependent on German actions, and it would be good to know to check that everything is working as desired, i.e. if your experiences are from 1.01 then things should be different next time around.

However, by mentioning German actions above, if the Germans choose to send the Zimmerman Telegram then they are making a big risk and it could explain US entrance, and this is irrespective of the patch in question.

My advice to all Central Powers players would be to not send the Telegram unless the USA is already fairly close to entering the war at the start of 1917. Unless of course you are feeling lucky! :cool:

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My question actually was around the benefits of attacking those NM hexes. If I understand correctly, after the newest patches, the US will only enter if the Germans are forcing the issue. Hence, if the Allied player does not heavily invest in diplomacy and the Germans are pacifying and not pressing with their subs, the US will not enter. What is the downside for the German player to go this route? In other words, are the benefits (NM plus) orf unrestricted warfare enough to warrant the risk to bring the US in earlier?

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Rabelesius, the US will enter the war one way or the other... if Russia surrender, then US enters in the war, so it's inevitable... The thing here is to tell you that unrestricted naval warfare is indeed useful... If you attack with a good number of subs, lets say 5 or more, then brit NM drops and German NM rises, and also the English dock drops in supply lvl, going below 5, which is a big hit to UK war capacity for many turns...

The main deal is not to let the US enter too soon in the war, so do not do it every turn... I normaly do around mid 1915 then only in early 1917 and keep the pressure for the rest of the war...

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Rabelesius, the US will enter the war one way or the other... if Russia surrender, then US enters in the war, so it's inevitable...

Hi Kommandant

This is far less true now than it was in earlier versions of the game, and Russia surrendering has only very little effect on US opinion.

The thing here is to tell you that unrestricted naval warfare is indeed useful... If you attack with a good number of subs, lets say 5 or more, then brit NM drops and German NM rises, and also the English dock drops in supply lvl, going below 5, which is a big hit to UK war capacity for many turns...

The main deal is not to let the US enter too soon in the war, so do not do it every turn... I normaly do around mid 1915 then only in early 1917 and keep the pressure for the rest of the war...

Very well put, this fully explains why it can be worth doing it, even if just for a little while! :)

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This is far less true now than it was in earlier versions of the game, and Russia surrendering has only very little effect on US opinion.

Did not know about it, i played CP in a full campaing against the AI only at 1.01.... Never got to play a full entente camaping, deferente from the others SC games in which i playd a hundred times against the AI... :P

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In the game I'm playing now as the Entente the US entered and were way below 100%, I don't remember how high it was but it was maximum 50%, I regulary erase old turns so I can't check it out, but I am playing with 1.03. I'm loosing very badly so I had been getting a little lazy and not watching the replays or paying much attention to diplomacy. So far all the games I have played the USA has entered in the summer of 1917, no matter what, most of those games were 1.02 though, the only diffrence I saw was the US income prior to entry, the time of entry was allways about the same.

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That could be the Zimmerman Telegram, as the Central Powers have a chance to play that card early in 1917.

I've just checked and the AI is set to always send the telegram. This is something that we'll need to take a look at and change because it would probably be better off not sending it more often than not!

There shouldn't be anything apart from Zimmerman that could make US mobilization jump circa 50% in a very short period of time.

But if you or anyone else playing multiplayer notice anything strange then please let us know.

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So, Zimmermann against the investment of hundreds of MPPs for the Entente. Seems like a no brainer to me: don't send the Telegram.

Truly Rabelesius, do not send Zimmermann, I never played a game that i sent the Zimmermann letter that did not concluded with the US entry in the war. I know there is a chance of success to the Zimmermann letter, but it's better to do unrestricted naval warfare and bring the US after a good time than do it the faster way.

Now, if the US are, let's say, around 80% activation, send the letter, as the US will enter the war, you want it or not.

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That could be the Zimmerman Telegram, as the Central Powers have a chance to play that card early in 1917.

I've just checked and the AI is set to always send the telegram. This is something that we'll need to take a look at and change because it would probably be better off not sending it more often than not!

There shouldn't be anything apart from Zimmerman that could make US mobilization jump circa 50% in a very short period of time.

But if you or anyone else playing multiplayer notice anything strange then please let us know.

Well I'm playing a 1.02 version game, call to arms scenario. We're in june16th 1917 and my opponent has not used his subs in the NM areas, nor declared unrestricted uboat warfare. US NM was at a maximum of 7, then dropped to 3 when I decided to declare war on Germany with Italy, so he had to divert forces to southern Germany, last turn it raised from 3 to 5.

My question will the US will ever enter the war, and if it does can it change things? I have not sent any of it's production to England along the game, instead I invested in IT and I have level 2. Even if it enters the war it has to produce an army and transpor it across the Atlantic, don't think there is time left for all that.

Russia is about to collapse, and her frontline is a loophole.

Was anyhting changed in v1.03? Will it be changed in v1.04?

Thanks.

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I still don't understand the exact mechanics of Unrestricted Naval Warfare. Can someone explicitly point out the mechanics, because "the ports might close down and they might lose a lot of MPPs" doesn't really help. The UK loses a lot of MPPs if I close down the convoy routes with 10-ish subs already - what else does the UK lose from UNW?

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Well I'm playing a 1.02 version game, call to arms scenario. We're in june16th 1917 and my opponent has not used his subs in the NM areas, nor declared unrestricted uboat warfare. US NM was at a maximum of 7, then dropped to 3 when I decided to declare war on Germany with Italy, so he had to divert forces to southern Germany, last turn it raised from 3 to 5.

My question will the US will ever enter the war, and if it does can it change things? I have not sent any of it's production to England along the game, instead I invested in IT and I have level 2. Even if it enters the war it has to produce an army and transpor it across the Atlantic, don't think there is time left for all that.

Russia is about to collapse, and her frontline is a loophole.

Was anyhting changed in v1.03? Will it be changed in v1.04?

Thanks.

Hi

The USA is now much less likely to enter the war if you don't do anything to upset it.

But her readiness will rise very slightly from 1917. However, it will be very slow and probably means joining the Entente in 1919 or 1920, if at all, and only if the game hasn't been won before.

It sounds like you have an opportunity to finish off Russia and then turn your attention to France. Using unrestricted attacks on the UK will help in reducing the UK's economy and therefore the British ability to help defend France, so it may be worthwhile.

As the US takes a while to build an army and ship it to Europe, I personally wouldn't worry too much about it and would carry out some unrestricted warfare against the UK. Not enough to bring the USA in, but enough to mess up the UK's income for a while.

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I still don't understand the exact mechanics of Unrestricted Naval Warfare. Can someone explicitly point out the mechanics, because "the ports might close down and they might lose a lot of MPPs" doesn't really help. The UK loses a lot of MPPs if I close down the convoy routes with 10-ish subs already - what else does the UK lose from UNW?

Hi Glabro

Normal sub activity will make the UK lose MPPs as you say, but unrestricted attacks can have the same effect, possibly with less units needed.

The reason is that if you opt to use unrestricted attacks, placing naval units on the relevant icons to the west of the UK will trigger scripts that reduce the effectiveness of British ports, and if the ports' strength goes below 5 then the convoy stops running.

At the same time, the use of unrestricted naval warfare will penalise British National Morale while providing a boost to Germany's. This could be of some use if Germany's morale is a little shaky.

But the downside is that it will annoy the USA, so you may find that you can achieve all you want by playing to the rules and not launching unrestricted attacks, and if you've got 10 subs in the area you probably don't need to risk upsetting President Wilson!

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Hi

The USA is now much less likely to enter the war if you don't do anything to upset it.

But her readiness will rise very slightly from 1917. However, it will be very slow and probably means joining the Entente in 1919 or 1920, if at all, and only if the game hasn't been won before.

It sounds like you have an opportunity to finish off Russia and then turn your attention to France. Using unrestricted attacks on the UK will help in reducing the UK's economy and therefore the British ability to help defend France, so it may be worthwhile.

As the US takes a while to build an army and ship it to Europe, I personally wouldn't worry too much about it and would carry out some unrestricted warfare against the UK. Not enough to bring the USA in, but enough to mess up the UK's income for a while.

Only problem here is that I'm playing the TE and my opponent the CP ;), and Russia collapsed in our last turn, I think it was mid september, so I'm pretty much doomed once he moves his armies from the east :eek:

Hope you enjoyed your holidays! and thanks for replying.

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