ill fates of war

[slysniper]

Ok, here is my first attempt at photos on the site.

You see my beloved panther just after he has shot another Sherman at about 300 meters to his 10:00 o -clock position

As you look at this photo, you can barely see a bazooka round leaving from a hedge that is over two hundred meters away from my panther. Note the smoke and the round seen in front of the trees it is fired from.

Because of the distance, this round has a good arch to it; you can now see it coming in on the panther. At this point the panther has spotted the grunt that fired the round and is returning machine gun fire his way.

I have set the camera behind the bazooka round so that you can see the small window this round manages to thread to get to the rear deck of the tank. Its just to the right of the turret, mid hgt. A few inches to the left it will hit the turret, likely no affect, a few inches to the right, it totally misses the tank and fall harmlessly into the dirt. But you can see this is not going to be the case. Also this round made it through the opening in the tree limbs just in front of the tank.

Not only is it an incredible shot, but the tank had a massive explosion and no one even makes it out alive. Without saying which battle this is. I had only two Panthers; they are the only real threat to stopping 20 or so Sherman's and a ton of infantry. I was having a blast in this game, having taken out 10 Sherman's already and had just relocated this tank here, planning on getting 2 or 3 more until this amazing shot.

Over the years there have been only a few events in battles in these games that really stick out as to the unlikely odds of something happening and how it turns the battle when it did. In this battle I was half way to totally destroying his forces and had held his advance to 200 meters for half the game. With this one shot I lost the one unit I could not afford to lose and the battle immediately swung drastically to his favor with my tank loss.

I just had to see if I could recreate this in test runs. So I had 8 bazookas firing on a panther at this range until all their rounds were fired or they were dead. I ran it multiple times until I knew I had fired over a 100 rounds at the panther. There were plenty of hits, but not one round did any major damage. So I will leave it at that, it was less than 1 in a 100 that this could succeed

I love the fact the game is to the level I could dissect this event. It is one that will haunt me in my CMBN dreams at night.

What is your greatest tale of the ill fates of war!!

[sburke]

Nice! Any small children around to hear you swearing at the top of your lungs? I have seen a lot of misses from that distance and am usually cursing my teams for opening up too soon and myself for not cutting their target arc shorter...and a bazooka round no less. Not even a respectable Shreck.

That would be one of those tales that would show up in a history book as an anecdote about the effective range of the bazooka that we could all argue over endlessly.

[slysniper]

I had ask the fellow I was playing the same thing. I said I would never let my units fire from that distance, he said he was desperate. I think he just did not know to cover arch his unit to stop it. He is new to the CMX2 engine, Played for years CMak and CMBB against each other.

[aka_tom_w]

That sounds and looks somewhat like the flight plan characteristics of the modern day Javelin Anti tank missile, except that is only available in CM:SF.

And here we see the round take gentle arc instead a sharp turn up then quick dive down on to the top armour of the tank. (correct?)

The chances of that kind of top rear deck hit must (I hope) be much much higher than 1 in 100, I would hope that was a 1 in 1000 freak hit. IMHO FWIW

[slysniper]

I am having a hard time beleiving I cannot find others with sad stories to tell of unlikely events happening on the battlefield.

Of course without them also saying it must be a problem with the game. face it bad things happen and it can just be the rare nature of the beast.

I proved it to myself on this one.

[slysniper]

That sounds and looks somewhat like the flight plan characteristics of the modern day Javelin Anti tank missile, except that is only available in CM:SF.

The chances of that kind of top rear deck hit must (I hope) be much much higher than 1 in 100, I would hope that was a 1 in 1000 freak hit. IMHO FWIW

I sure was not going to run the test that much to find out.

[Battlefront.com]

There was something very similar documented in Normandy by a US Bazooka man against a Panther. IIRC it was even further out than 200m, but was fired from balcony of a 2 story building. Definitely a very, very lucky shot. Er... except for Slysniper, in that it would be a very unlucky hit

One thing that's really in a Bazooka's favor here is the fact that it's a shaped charge. Velocity doesn't really matter. If it hits at 20m or 200m it has pretty much the same effect for the same angle. Not so with solid shot. Hitting something at the extreme range of a rifle, tank gun, etc. might not do anything, whereas at close range it would punch straight through.

Like any round that is not self propelled (i.e. has a motor), there's always an arc that gets accentuated the further out it goes. "Lobbing" is a common practice for low velocity type weapons. In fact, that's the general concept behind a mortar as compared to a howitzer. A Javelin, however, is a fairly unique weapon which combines the speed and accuracy of a high velocity weapon with the high arc of a low velocity TNT chucker. Better still, it self guides and adjusts the arc accordingly.

Steve

[ClarkWGriswold]

I've been very lucky. So far, I've always been on the fortunate side in these sorts of exchanges. My lone Sherman took out a Panther and two Stugs to win the game for me. My last anti-tank gun took out my enemy's three remaining PzIVs. My bazooka team knocks out the gun of the enemy Panther (his only remaining armor asset) and gets me the win.

I think my opponents are starting to think I have a backdoor into the AI programming.

[Sgt Joch]

my best memories are from CMx1 games.

There was a CMBB game where my german squad was in a foxhole on a reverse slope next to a road. During one turn, it was battling with 2 soviet squads coming from either side. All of a sudden a T-34 comes over the slope, maybe 20 meters away. A quick PF takes it out and the squad goes back to the battle. 20 seconds later, a 2nd T-34 comes along, again taken out with a PF, all the while battling the Soviets squads.

Then there was a CMAK game in Italy fought in heavy fog. I knew my oppo had 1 Tiger which I had not seen the whole game. Finally, after 40 turns, the Tiger comes out of the fog, barely 40 meters from my lines...only to be taken out 2 seconds later by a frontal Bazooka shot. My oppo was not amused.

My best Duh! moment is from a ongoing PBEM CMBN game with GaJ.

I had spotted one of his Panzerschrek team behind a hedge and was doing my best to kill it with HMGs and mortars. Meanwhile in an adjacent field, one of my squad comes under fire from a HMG behind a bocage hedge. I promptly move one of my Shermans up to deal with it, carefully buttoning it up. As soon as it moves into position, it is taken out...I look over and realize there is a large gap in the hedge giving the Panzerschrek team a perfect view of the side of my buttoned up tank...:mad:

[winkelried]

that's probably the stuff knight's crosses, medals of honor and vc's are made of i presume.

"c'est la guerre" - plenty of such stuff happened to me in my CMx1, CMx2 career ...

[sburke]

I am having a hard time beleiving I cannot find others with sad stories to tell of unlikely events happening on the battlefield.

Of course without them also saying it must be a problem with the game. face it bad things happen and it can just be the rare nature of the beast.

I proved it to myself on this one.

I leave those for my opponents to post Most of the time it isn't because they are unlikely, it is usually that I neglect something I should have thought about more.

What I usually end up posting are the scenes that just knock me on my a** to see how the Tac AI implements during a turn and the scenes it creates.

[slysniper]

I leave those for my opponents to post Most of the time it isn't because they are unlikely, it is usually that I neglect something I should have thought about more.

What I usually end up posting are the scenes that just knock me on my a** to see how the Tac AI implements during a turn and the scenes it creates.

I am such a humble guy, I did not want to show such a event against a enemy (Oh yes I would). But was more willing to show a ego tearing moment towards my own game play (what a bunch of bull)

[sburke]

We will see what I have to show in the next series. I have 2 going on and I suspect I may have more than a few moments of getting smacked up side my head by my opponents.

[Killkess]

What strikes me again in this situation is the fast spotting/aquisition time of the buttoned Panther. He first was distracted by a tank engagement to the left and almost instantly spots a small puff of smoke, identifies the target, rotates the turret and engages the targt even before the bazooka round strikes?

Sure.... or did he fired thw bow mg? Which doesnt seem much more reasonable for me.

[slysniper]

What strikes me again in this situation is the fast spotting/aquisition time of the buttoned Panther. He first was distracted by a tank engagement to the left and almost instantly spots a small puff of smoke, identifies the target, rotates the turret and engages the targt even before the bazooka round strikes?

Sure.... or did he fired thw bow mg? Which doesnt seem much more reasonable for me.

Actually that is not exactly true, that was the second round fired from the bazooka. The panther fired hit the tank, shortly after, the first bazooka round missed to the right, then it was on the second round fired that the tank spotted the smoke. So it was pretty beleiveable actually. What was not, the Sherman he hit did not die, it was a penetration and later found out it was still operating and moving on the battlefield. It is for sure maybe the most unlucky minute I have had except for one other I can think of that happened years ago.