YankeeDog Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 I just had another thought about this earlier. Being 'in woods' doesn't actually necessarily have any concealment effect whatsoever.... Asked and answered. OP states that the zook team was actually in woods terrain, not simply under trees. I must admit this issue is intriguing me... I'd like to run some tests and try to figure out exactly who is likely to spot whom first, and at what range. Perhaps this coming weekend. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 My understanding is that a tank or anything else can't be "spotted" by sound unless it has already been "spotted" visually so even if the unspotted tank is 5 feet away from an isolated gun crew and approaching from the rear it is silent unless a member of the crew turns around and sees it and then they can hear it. Am I correct? :confused::eek: Nope. Sound contacts can lead to a unit becoming "spotted". It's just that the sounds don't play over your computer's sound output devices until the unit is registered by the game as spotted, if you have that setting turned on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SelfLoadingRifle Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Not my experience either. I placed a bazooka team in light wood in the 'Le Desert' scenario and it took out a Panther attempting to come through that way in very short order. My one and only 57mm AT gun had a field day as well, knocking out a couple of Panthers plus a few half tracks as well. However, please take note, I did make sure it was unlimbered, which is something that is very easy to overlook. Also, Normandy style hedgerows can be very awkward at times. It is easy enough to fire such ordnance as rifles and BARs through them, but anything heavier (in my experience) often presents problems. I haven't done any related tests, but perhaps bazookas might fall into this category? Would anyone out there like to offer a test based answer on this - one way or another? SLR 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Asked and answered. OP states that the zook team was actually in woods terrain, not simply under trees. Not clear from the way I read it. Too much 'in the woods' generalisation all over the place to be able to be precise about it. Yes the question was asked. I don't see anything confirming Treadhead's grokked the difference between what all our years of wargaming experience expects out of 'some ground with trees sticking out of it' and what CMx2 actually serves up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Asked and answered. OP states that the zook team was actually in woods terrain, not simply under trees. I must admit this issue is intriguing me... I'd like to run some tests and try to figure out exactly who is likely to spot whom first, and at what range. Perhaps this coming weekend. He was referring to the thickness of the undergrowth and the density of the trees I guess. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childress Posted September 13, 2011 Share Posted September 13, 2011 Although I date myself with RL experience on the M4, for me CMBN is just a game, not a simulator, so I view it that way when I play, adapting to the idiosyncrasies of the programming and trade-offs the developers had to make., Doug Good grief. I don't know about Canada, but wasn't the Sherman phased out in the US after the Korean War? I salute you, sir. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tread Head Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 Just a question, were the infantry suppressed or have lowered morale? No... they were fine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tread Head Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 He was referring to the thickness of the undergrowth and the density of the trees I guess. In the woods means in the woods... not hiding under a lone tree in the middle of the open... thought that was pretty obvious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 In the woods means in the woods... not hiding under a lone tree in the middle of the open... thought that was pretty obvious. Actually it isn't quite that simple. There are a lot of different ground terrain tile and tree qty types that can alter things by degree. Also how far into the woods itself can change things. For example in Bois de Baugin, if you stick infantry at the edge of the woods line they are spotted rather quickly. If you take them a little further in and into the hvy forest tiles, that changes dramatically. Am working on a map of a portion of the Huertgen and the number of possible options in creating forest terrain is pretty nuts and it all varies your concealment. If you have a copy of that turn a screenshot of the map at low level of the area of the incident and a screen shot of the game turn itself could do wonders to illustrate your point and remove a lot of the confusion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 There are two types of woods terrain tiles; heavy and light. Both simulate heavy underbrush. Neither simulates a single tree. The trees need to be placed IN the woods tiles. Hence the confusion over the the initial description of a team in "woods". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Good grief. I don't know about Canada, but wasn't the Sherman phased out in the US after the Korean War? I salute you, sir. Israel still used a bunch of upgunned "Supers" in 1967 -- DK about 1973. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 In the woods means in the woods... not hiding under a lone tree in the middle of the open... thought that was pretty obvious. That's my point, it is not. Maybe a screenshot will clear up a lot of things, if you have the time of course 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 There are two types of woods terrain tiles; heavy and light. Both simulate heavy underbrush. And, for emphasis, there's no requirement on map designers to have either of those terrain tiles under any trees they place. So they could be growing out of manicured lawn, or bare dirt which would provide no concealment benefit whatsoever. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tread Head Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 That's my point, it is not. Maybe a screenshot will clear up a lot of things, if you have the time of course attached pic of woods 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tread Head Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 <a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-WkEZEjsig8k/TnDI0D1JOYI/AAAAAAAAANg/ewXh8K3ZvY4/s1600/woods.JPG"><img style="display:block; margin:0px auto 10px; text-align:center;cursor:pointer; cursor:hand;width: 400px; height: 212px;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-WkEZEjsig8k/TnDI0D1JOYI/AAAAAAAAANg/ewXh8K3ZvY4/s400/woods.JPG" border="0" alt=""id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5652238329056934274" /></a> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 <img src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-WkEZEjsig8k/TnDI0D1JOYI/AAAAAAAAANg/ewXh8K3ZvY4/s1600/woods.JPG"> Thanks, that does help. One other question, is that the facing the German units is coming from I expect not as I think that is impassable. Can you take shot of the facing direction towards the armor or even better a shot from the view of the tank? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tread Head Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 Having a hard time posting screen shots? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerDog Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Good grief. I don't know about Canada, but wasn't the Sherman phased out in the US after the Korean War? I salute you, sir. It was still active by the end of the 50's and into the early 1960's when I trained on it, then we switched to the Centurion, which had 4 hours of maintenance for very hour of driving, or 6 miles which ever came first. ... but, I'm only 39.... Thanks .. Regards, Doug 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 Having a hard time posting screen shots? like this? You are right, if the tank spotted the AT that fast then there is a problem. Just some additional questions, what is the difficulty level and has the AT team fired before? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tread Head Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 How did you do that? What is the code? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tread Head Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 There is the tank right after it appeared... a tree growing in the middle...? Zook team 1 is already dead, never firing a shot... I play on the hardest difficulty and this is a pbem game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tread Head Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 Here it takes a M10 round without slowing down.... Here is destroys the M10 In the next turn, the other zook team gets off a shot, which hits a tree... LOL, So, the tank rotates over and one shot kills them as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tread Head Posted September 14, 2011 Author Share Posted September 14, 2011 Next turn..... Zook fires... hits a tree.... tank fires.... dead GI 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tux Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 I understand your frustration (trust me, I've been throughout this sort of thing too) but nothing about it strikes me as impossible. I think you might just have been really, really unlucky. The first AT team not spotting the tank is strange and still needs to be tested to check that this is not a common problem. The other two encounters, and their results, are totally plausible. If your opponent bought a crack/elite Pz IV or gave it +2 attributes then the M10 strike would need to destroy the tank or kill crew to 'slow it down'. Looks like you got unlucky and did neither. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StellarRat Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 If the tank was moving I can't conceive of any way it could "sneak up" on stationary infantrymen . Tanks are just too noisy for that to ever happen. I also can't imagine infantry ignoring a tank even if they're looking the opposite direction. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.