"Die Amis kommen !" remarks about H2H

[snake_eye]

As I wrote it in the repository “Die Amis kommen” scenario’s page, I shall have a look at the H2H, seen on the German side and reply to the remarks of MrMash quoted below.

I just have one thing in mind at the moment. That is that the obstacles in particular the hedgehogs ones are placed as they should be in a normal defence set up. That they did not impaired much, in the game ( Axis against the US - A.I) the moves of the infantry (barbed wires) and or the tanks (hedgehogs) as it happened in reality.

Just an example: Tanks crossing dense barbed wires got often in trouble. The barbed wires slowing it down at the best, but usually getting entangled in the bogeys, the track and managing to throw it, stopping the tank.

Quote:

MrMash 2011-09-07 20:48:17 I have just started doing the set up for this battle as a H2H PBEM as the Axis, and I have noticed you have given the Axis so many hedgehog obstacles that combined with the deployment zone it allows every ford across the river to be blocked to vehicle traffic except one, effectively herding the Allied armor into a small kill zone at the edge of the map ? I am now going to have to modify this scenario by removing all the hedgehog obstacles so my opponent has some choices where to attack to make the battle less predictable and therefore more interesting. I fyou are going to make a map thats 1.5 km wide with numerous crossing points, please don’t undermine it by making it to easy for the Axis to defend using indestructible and impassable objects. Apart from that the map looks great and i like the forces i have to play with so hopefully, now the hedgehogs have been removed, it will be a good battle

I’ll be back soon with the explanation about the good and or wrong things that might be resented during the setup. I am going to test the ability of the obstacles to stop the Amis at the ford exits. For doing that, I will have to move them over there. That was not what I expected to happen, if we want to stick to a feasible reality about that attack and or defence scenario if played in H2H, these obstacles should not be moved at will by the player.

If you have some remarks about the H2H, set up and the battle you might have played from either side let us know about it.

[snake_eye]

The following pictures showing you the ground and the obstacles to which our StuG III has been confronted speak for themselves.

However, I have to respond to MrMarsh precisely:

1/ You must have in mind that a scenario originally made for a Human against the A.I has its fortifications (being made available in the units purchase, found in the scenario editor) shown in the set up. The player who beneficiates of these fortifications (Pre-Registered artillery and mortars spot, trenches, hedgehogs, mines and bunkers The barbed wires are not found in the fortifications – they are found in the fences – They won’t move) will see them appearing at the setup time and will have the opportunity to move them. They must be, for that, in the designed setup areas.

In other words if you don’t want these fortifications to be moved, you must be sure to exclude them from the setup areas drawn on the map. Doing so, you won’t be able to move in troops, guns, vehicles and tanks.

2/ If you look closely at the map and its designed setup areas, you will see that besides the Pre-Registered artillery/mortars spot (they move independently from the setup areas during the setup), you can not move many obstacles (trenches, hedgehogs, mines and bunkers). That is, at almost all the fords exits, but one. The Ford, number 4. You can however move them at the bridgeheads of the Rail/Road Bridge and the La Meauffe Road Bridge

3/The design of battle of Normandy (it is the same in CMSF) does not permit to fix obstacles like hedgehogs, trenches and bunkers in a specific position defined by the designer.

In the scenario “Die Amis kommen” the WN1, WN2, WN3 and WN4 trenches and or bunkers can be moved . Only the barbed wires will remain.

4/The H2H player but also the player playing against the A.I should only consider moving the troops, vehicles, guns and tanks. He should not be permitted to move the fortifications. Since they take some times to be prepared (in a real battle), it would have been normal to fix their emplacement for the game. That not being done, MrMarsh (playing the Germans) can modify the map to such an extent that it won’t be playable by the US forces.

The exits are certainly not all closed, but trenches and bunkers can be set in weird places. Surely, the tactical plans fit to the map made by the designer are completely changed, for the worst rather than the best.

5/ About the technical impact of the obstacles, you can rely on the pictures and the comments there after. I have to say, however that the only obstacles delaying the tanks and vehicles are the hedgehogs. You must close totally the line of advance to achieve such a result. The barbed wires are delaying the infantry, since they jumped over it. The trenches don’t seem to slow a tank. It crosses it in 13 seconds.

To summarize in H2H like in a play against the A.I, I would advice not to move the fortifications. They surely have a reason to be where they are. For the rest, as long as the setup areas allow you to move, do it at your will.

I shall dare to compare the scenario to a car. If you remove its engine and place another one different, unless you modify all that is around accordingly and rightly you won’t get the best car you are hoping to drive.

Many thanks to MrMarsh, I must say, I had never thought that the fortifications and they are numerous in the scenario would be moved by the player. I needed areas to allow units deployment to afford the player with some variability to the scenario. These areas have the fortifications right into them ! Too bad we could not prevent them from being moved during the setup.

That is unfortunately the same for all scenarios having fortifications within a setup area. I don’t know if fixing them has been an option thought by Battlefront.

A StuG III is advancing toward a thick barbed wire defence of WN2. It will get across it in 26 seconds flat.

Then it goes over a trench in 13 seconds, then through the barbed wires within the next 10 seconds and becomes immobilized after having exploded a second mine found on its path.

[snake_eye]

A StuG III is turning off the road, passing alongside the first hedgehogs being set on the slope, before messing up with the last ones at the 57 seconds mark and finally arriving after 1 minute and 9 seconds at the end of its pathway. In that case the fact that the StuG is moving along the obstacles and more or less around them, we can consider that the hedgehogs are a deterrent against tanks and or vehicles. But to prevent them to pass, the hedgehogs have to be deployed across the full length of ground you want to interdict

[snake_eye]

Another StuG III is made to pass over a concertina across the road and to move on the road at a post behind some hedgehogs barring it. It goes right over the concertina and avoid the hedgehogs and that in 24 seconds

[snake_eye]

A StuG III is turning off the road, passing alongside the first hedgehogs being set on the slope, before messing up with the last ones at the 57 seconds mark and finally arriving after 1 minute and 9 seconds at the end of its pathway. In that case the fact that the StuG is moving along the obstacles and more or less around them, we can consider that the hedgehogs are a deterrent against tanks and or vehicles. But to prevent them to pass, the hedgehogs have to be deployed across the full length of ground you want to interdict

Cheers

[snake_eye]

To show you that the obstacles like they are set in the scenario and unless you move them, which I don’t recommend, are not a brake to the momentum of the US advance, you can refer to the pictures of such advance in a German player battle, against the A.I.

Since US units are shown when seen by the defender, consider these pictures as spoilers.

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http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=99585

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