Ever notice that a player’s interest in a PBEM game is directly proportionate to his

[dpabrams]

Anyways I have been doing PBEM for a couple of months now and having a blast and here are some observations. What are yours?

• If you think the AI is good, wait until you meet and average to good human opponent

• If your opponent has the perception that he is winning, man the turns keep coming

• If your opponent believes that he is getting beaten handily, the turns come more slowly

• Players who purchase balanced forces are generally better players

• Players who purchase nothing but Tiger’s and 88’s are generally poor players

• Meeting engagements are for tourists

• Mines, TRP’s and roadblocks are very effective

• You never have enough AT assets

• The 60mm kills more grunts than anything

• A Panther is a nightmare in good hands

• CM:BN mission commanders will fight to the death more than their real life equivalents

• A Rhino attachment is priceless

• Split squads are a necessity

Pete

[sburke]

Anyways I have been doing PBEM for a couple of months now and having a blast and here are some observations. What are yours?

• If you think the AI is good, wait until you meet and average to good human opponent

• If your opponent has the perception that he is winning, man the turns keep coming

• If your opponent believes that he is getting beaten handily, the turns come more slowly

• Players who purchase balanced forces are generally better players

• Players who purchase nothing but Tiger’s and 88’s are generally poor players

• Meeting engagements are for tourists

• Mines, TRP’s and roadblocks are very effective

• You never have enough AT assets

• The 60mm kills more grunts than anything

• A Panther is a nightmare in good hands

• CM:BN mission commanders will fight to the death more than their real life equivalents

• A Rhino attachment is priceless

• Split squads are a necessity

Pete

In fairness to my opponents, they have kept the turns coming regardless of how they feel they are doing. I think I have been very fortunate in the ones that I have and to make sure they will continue to see me as a worthwhile opponent, I make sure to send turns promptly no matter how badly they are stomping me.

What I do like about having a human opponent is the psychological aspect of the game comes into play. The AI doesn't learn, doesn't know how to feint and you can't intimidate it or mis direct it. Tactics become less creative in my experience. As an example in a recent battle I dropped some arty right on my old positions as they were overrun and believe I hit my opponent pretty hard. I considered trying to counterattack and retake the position (and probably should have, then again I could have been completely wrong about that and needlessly sacrificed my troops). Against the computer I wouldn't have even considered it as the computer isn't going to stop and pause due to the unexpected carnage and I am likely just going to run into more attackers.

Can't say anything about the Tigers or 88s. I have been the German defender so far and in the one QB I didn't purchase wonder weapons. My own philosophy is I want to play more historically oriented, which also means my AFV crews depart for the rear if their vehicle is destroyed etc.

Full squads die twice as fast as split squads.

Mines and trps are force multipliers when they are well placed and a frustrating waste of money when your opponent decides to use an unexpected route

Rhinos are high priority targets

Towed AT guns are an exercise in hair pulling. Either they are placed where they never get a good shot, or they get taken out before they can do enough damage.

There is nothing so satisfying as a well executed ambush followed by a quick displace order before your opponent can respond. Well nothing except maybe a well timed artillery strike.

60mm is grossly unfair and probably a violation of the Geneva convention.

[Statisoris]

Your observations are pretty right on, here are mine

1) There is so little leeway for mistakes in a PBEM vs a decent player that all game bugs and quirks become very very annoying when they pop up.

2) I hate to admit it but when Im being beaten badly in a PBEM and there really is no decent chance for victory, those matches become much more of a chore and work than a fun game. I only continue the match bc of good sportsmanship but hate spending an hour of my day on a lost cause turn.

3) Artillery that takes less time to arrive is most effective in PBEM. On map 60/81mm mortars can be very effective in PBEM.

4) Agreed, TRPs are a must especially for heavier/long delay artillery.

5) Bunkers, trenches and foxholes are nearly useless vs a good attacker.

6) You've got to keep the pressure on and not give the other guy time to think. Every turn you are not attacking or maneuvering, you give the human defender more of an advantage.

7) Vs a good player with decent AT assets, maneuvering and succeeding at armored warfare is very difficult and nervewracking.

8) Smoke can be a lifesaver under the right wind/tactical conditions.

9) Hiding and not attacking "until you can see the whites of their eyes" seems to be very effective in bocage vs humans. Its also frustrating as hell, lol.

10) Resist the urge to bunch up your units, split squads, use overwatch and keep a close and ready reserve. I recently lost 50% and 75% of 2 platoons due to bunching and exposing too many guys at once.

[dpabrams]

Towed AT guns are an exercise in hair pulling. Either they are placed where they never get a good shot, or they get taken out before they can do enough damage.

I have stopped using AT guns period. Ranges are too short on these maps and the life expectancy is even shorter. Story usually reads as follows. Scout spots AT gun, 60mm moves into position, scratch one AT gun. When I play the German's and I seldom do, I get a lowly Marder and hide it until I need it. Once said Marder is spotted it moves and hides again. A still moving Marder with 10 rounds of AP is better than three spotted 75mm AT guns.

BTW the crack about CM:BN and The Most Interesting Man in the World is as funny a crack as I have ever read on this board and there is some funny s**t here. Amazing how many smart asses play this stuff.

Rule #1- It's OK if it's funny.

[sburke]

I have stopped using AT guns period. Ranges are too short on these maps and the life expectancy is even shorter. Story usually reads as follows. Scout spots AT gun, 60mm moves into position, scratch one AT gun. When I play the German's and I seldom do, I get a lowly Marder and hide it until I need it. Once said Marder is spotted it moves and hides again. A still moving Marder with 10 rounds of AP is better than three spotted 75mm AT guns.

BTW the crack about CM:BN and The Most Interesting Man in the World is as funny a crack as I have ever read on this board and there is some funny s**t here. Amazing how many smart asses play this stuff.

Rule #1- It's OK if it's funny.

I actually had a 50mm ATG gun have a huge impact in my first run at a pbem, but I think that was just luck run wild. My current battles had one nicely keyholed 75mm ATG wiped out without ever getting off a decent shot and the second be completely marginalized by the flow of the battle.

Ya just gotta love those commercials, especially the ones that run on the radio.

"He is the life of parties he has never attended."

"He's a lover not a fighter.....but he's also a fighter so don't get any ideas."

"He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it feels."

"He's won trophies for his game face alone."

"His words carry weight that would break a less interesting man's jaw."

"If he were to punch you in the face, you would have to fight off the irresistible urge to thank him".

"His mother has a tattoo that reads 'son'".

"At museums he is allowed to touch the art."

"Sharks have a week dedicated to him."

"He can speak French, in Russian."

"He bowls overhand."

"He once punched a magician. That's right, you heard me."

"Both sides of his pillow are cool."

"If he were to pat you on the back, you would list it on your resume."

"When in Rome, they do as he does."

"He's won the same Lifetime Achievement Award...twice."

[Statisoris]

I have stopped using AT guns period...

I know what you mean. Its sad though because sometimes you really want to see those AT guns, infantry guns and other rarely used units on the field. Im thinking of setting up some matches where each player is given maybe 4 base force mixes by their adversary to choose from and they choose which they want. Something like 1) INFANTRY + must have some of any of the following. AT Guns, Inf Guns, Armored Cars, Wood Bunkers. I feel that might make matches a little more varied and let people try their hand at commanding a more natural force mix.

[von Kleist]

Okay, so this is my first post, but I've actively been following the forums now since before the demo came out. Overall, I'm favorably impressed with the discussions.

I'll fess up to the fact that I have been the opponent that sburke has mentioned playing now and then, and I agree very much with his take on Huzzar and Bois de Baugin. Since he and I both agree that our battles are less about winning and loosing and more the sheer enjoyment of watching the stream of bullets from an MG 42 whizz past, or your guys getting shattered by an artillery strike, (even if they're your own, thanks very much sburke).

One thing that I've noticed that hasn't been discussed, are firefights in the middle of woods, and the caution that must be excercised when in one. If any one has any suggestions on forest infantry tactics, I'd love to hear some input...

[sburke]

Okay, so this is my first post, but I've actively been following the forums now since before the demo came out. Overall, I'm favorably impressed with the discussions.

I'll fess up to the fact that I have been the opponent that sburke has mentioned playing now and then, and I agree very much with his take on Huzzar and Bois de Baugin. Since he and I both agree that our battles are less about winning and loosing and more the sheer enjoyment of watching the stream of bullets from an MG 42 whizz past, or your guys getting shattered by an artillery strike, (even if they're your own, thanks very much sburke).

One thing that I've noticed that hasn't been discussed, are firefights in the middle of woods, and the caution that must be excercised when in one. If any one has any suggestions on forest infantry tactics, I'd love to hear some input...

Welcome to the party! There was actually some brief discussion awhile back about how to build fire superiority that discussed this briefly, but honestly I think this one is worthy of a thread of it's own. I can't say I have an answer as I usually find the situation falling apart tactically and a combination of luck and timing contributing to decide who's still standing. Then you have a unit like Herr Probst who wages a personal war all by himself. That is one I can take absolutely no credit for. In Bois de Baugin, the German infantry can be incredibly fragile, but at the same time given a decent position and spotting the enemy first, pretty tough to root out.

From the little bit of experience I have had so far

I think that issue of who spots who first is a major contributor as the grenades start flying fast. I have found that on the defense, having your units hide can mean giving up that opportunity to spot your opponent first.

Smg and mp units can swing the balance due to the short range firepower they can throw out.

Foxholes can help but you have to try and position them so that the range they can be spotted from is within the range you want to set your target arcs for. Having them close to the edge of the treeline generally means they don't hold up well as fighting positions.

Speaking of target arcs, I generally set a 360 degree arc, otherwise I usually end up getting surprised.

Slope positions can be tricky as they can make it difficult to grenade your opponent. Being above your opponent can frequently mean your grenades go sailing past them - sometimes that works to hit the follow on forces, but don't count on it.

As in most tactical situations if you can somehow find a way to flank your opponents position it can pay off real well. The problem with woods is that while you are flanking them you may well be walking into an ambush.

[von Kleist]

Welcome to the party! There was actually some brief discussion awhile back about how to build fire superiority that discussed this briefly, but honestly I think this one is worthy of a thread of it's own. I can't say I have an answer as I usually find the situation falling apart tactically and a combination of luck and timing contributing to decide who's still standing. Then you have a unit like Herr Probst who wages a personal war all by himself. That is one I can take absolutely no credit for. In Bois de Baugin, the German infantry can be incredibly fragile, but at the same time given a decent position and spotting the enemy first, pretty tough to root out.

From the little bit of experience I have had so far

I think that issue of who spots who first is a major contributor as the grenades start flying fast. I have found that on the defense, having your units hide can mean giving up that opportunity to spot your opponent first.

Smg and mp units can swing the balance due to the short range firepower they can throw out.

Foxholes can help but you have to try and position them so that the range they can be spotted from is within the range you want to set your target arcs for. Having them close to the edge of the treeline generally means they don't hold up well as fighting positions.

Speaking of target arcs, I generally set a 360 degree arc, otherwise I usually end up getting surprised.

Slope positions can be tricky as they can make it difficult to grenade your opponent. Being above your opponent can frequently mean your grenades go sailing past them - sometimes that works to hit the follow on forces, but don't count on it.

As in most tactical situations if you can somehow find a way to flank your opponents position it can pay off real well. The problem with woods is that while you are flanking them you may well be walking into an ambush.

I'll open a thread on this.