Land bridge over Railroad?

[flammenwerfer]

Is this possible in the editor?

thanks

[Fuser]

You mean Wood Bridge or Stone Bridge?

[Fuser]

[mjkerner]

I don't want to be the engineer going under the footbridge, lol! But wow, good fit on the stone bridge.

[stoex]

Good fit? Dunno, looks like a pretty deep gravity well under that stone bridge. I'd hate to have to run a train along those tracks as well. Just another way in which bridges aren't quite up to par.

Driving a vehicle under a bridge will beam it up on top of the bridge briefly as it passes the middle of it, then back down off the other side. Makes for good shooting for guns waiting on the upper level...

[Fuser]

It´s just a "can be done" pic guys, those wells under bridges can be easily corrected, hehe.

[MikeyD]

I just tried the RR track-under-bridge, and I see you get no 'depression' at the intersection if only your elevation points for the lower road is low enough. I tried 22 for highground, 16 for rail bed and the offending bump disappeared. It also got to where a locomotice might possibly make it under the bridge too!

[De Savage]

And it's possible to make rail go OVER the road too.

[womble]

It's worth noting that bridges over land can pose some interesting pathing quandaries for the TacAI. Can be a pain in the patookus to move around.

[dieseltaylor]

Which raises the interesting point of how common were bridges over road/over rail as road traffic apart from towns might be not frequent or important enough to justify the expense.

Where it would be logical is where a raileay is following a contour line and incidentally bridges a lower level where a road is climbing up. Main lines might justify bridges and therefore you would expect a minimum of two tracks : )

[stoex]

While they may not have been very common, bridges over roads or rails (with the sunken terrain and/or berms that go with them) offer some interesting tactical options. I strongly hope BF will do some more tweaking to pathing on, under and around bridges to improve their feel and reduce associated problems. A good man is planning on releasing a campaign sometime soon, and one of the missions in it depends completely on accurate pathing under bridges. Which basically means he won't be releasing it soon after all, I guess. BFC, fix or do sumfink!

[womble]

I would have thought that bridges to allow road and rail to cross would have been relatively common. Certainly there are enough really high (brick-built) rail bridges across entire valleys (more 'viaducts' than simple bridges, I guess you'd call 'em) that have road networks in 'em across Europe, though perhaps not so much in Normandy. It was certainly common enough practice in rural Britain, but I don't know how well that translates to perhaps-less-crowded rural France.

[dieseltaylor]

Not a new question then :

Die Rote Teufeln- 11-30-2008

Normandy railway lines

Random question I know :roll: Does anyone have any pics or info on the railway lines through the Normandy Bocage country. More specifically would these be sunk down below the level of the fields like the roads, or raised on embankments? Got some Peco track and was hoping to get some useful info before embarking on a bit of scenery building, all help appreciated, cheers :wink:

Mark at Great Escape- 11-30-2008

I would imagine that the level of the track would depend on the ground around, the train lines in Normandy will be the same as those here in the UK, the majority of train lines in Britain were laid before the war. Thus the level will change to ensure that the track stays as even as possible. I like the raised track idea, it create a barrier on your gaming table plus it can be a deadly obstacle for people to try to cross!!!!

goose- 11-30-2008

Holidays

I can tell you that some of the railine in use today in normandy area are sunken and some are raised as Mark eludes too. They are similar. I am looking at getting some rail lines made up. Company B are doing some moulded track sections, and I am looking to having mine raised, to make a ridge on the gaming table. I don't plan to glue my track down, so i can swap it onto flat sections for use in rail yards type games etc.. (make the most out of the limited costly track)..

hofer- 12-01-2008

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x30c8i_en-cabine-diepperouen-ter_events http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2d8gk_ter-x73645-bassenormandie_travel http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x130ua_diaporaman1-du-270107_shortfilms

Edit - and from Wikipedia there is this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Railway_stations_in_Lower_Normandy

However I suspect the maps - is it Michelin 1947 - will provide loads of detail and may even be fine enought to see bridges and crossings.

@ )

When provision merchant John Sainsbury set up shop in London’s Drury Lane, he built his business with the slogan: “The best butter in London”. His best butters came from Normandy and were a valued part of the business for years to come.

Normandy butter was on show at London’s first Universal Exhibition in 1867, where Isigny’s butter won the only gold medal. London was just the first of many English towns to appreciate Isigny butter.

Even if Isigny was missed out during France’s first wave of railway building, the town’s butter made its mark in England. Here, railways had transformed city life in the second half of the 19th century with regular deliveries of dairy products.

Britain’s rapidly expanding rail network ensured that butter could be carried rapidly to the industrial cities of Birmingham and Manchester, where there was a burgeoning middle class keen to enjoy the finer things in life. Wholesale merchants such as John Sainsbury and Charles Henry Harrod ensured that they were not disappointed.

[JonS]

Next module:

Butter Mission: Isigny 1884

[flammenwerfer]

Thanks for the respones.

I was trying to do a highway bridge over a sunken railroad with a wide, large stone bridge but it doesn't look right.

The railroad over the sunken roadway looks ok, though.

[snake_eye]

Bridges either R R and or road ones are very challenging when it comes to get them in the right place and at the right elevation. It is as a matter of fact, more difficult to do it when it is an overpass either on a road or a railroad track, than a river.

The ground level at the bridge entry, is the more delicate thing, I have been confronted with, to this day. Since, you can not make it level with your mouse, you have to travel back and forth in the editor, between the map and the 3D view to see the results. More than often, they were not to the standard I wanted. I think that they are still not up to it. But that is the closer I could get to what I wanted.

BTW, to get cars, halftracks and tanks to move on them, you have to move them at a slow speed or have a wider bridge to get through it at a higher speed. Otherwise, the tank will stop, resume, stop and it takes a long time to see it on the other side.

If you have some answers to these, I’ll be glad to read them.

Cheers

Here are some shots from “Die Amis kommen !” scenario. You have on it numerous bridges. Road and RR types as well as a destroyed RR bridge. Its RR tracks falling toward the river is like the ones that can be seen on 1944 era pictures.

[dieseltaylor]

Hmmm! If it were narrow gauge maybe but that really tight turn would seem unlikely in standard gauge. Judging by the building and guessing it is at 15 metres the radius of the turn looks to be 45 metres max. I would think that joining one of the lines to the north and reversing into the station would be more likely.

However being a 180 degree other things come into play. Interestingly the concept of 180's seems not to be addressed and I imagine the radii are at most for 90 degree turns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_railway_curve_radius

The good news is France had an large amount of narrow gauge. An dof course if it is based on a map of the period I am completely wrong : )

[nik mond]

The problem is when infantry try to pass under the bridge and levitate up to the top of the bridge. I try and avoid using this concept because of that.

Although as stated it can be made to look good. Using the proper elelvation tile and texture it is possible to eliminate the ground deformity even on railroad tracks.

[snake_eye]

The problem is when infantry try to pass under the bridge and levitate up to the top of the bridge. I try and avoid using this concept because of that.

Although as stated it can be made to look good. Using the proper elelvation tile and texture it is possible to eliminate the ground deformity even on railroad tracks.

Sure, it can be made to look good, but you have to make numerous tests to get the one that seems the best looking. Sometimes, that is to no avail and you have to reconsider totally, the topography of the area where the bridge and or overpass should be. :cool:

More, if the levels are not done correctly the behaviour of the vehicles and or troops crossing them, might be in some instances erratic. A test of the crossing facilities is primordial, without it, the designer A.I plans might be in jeopardy.

About the railroad tracks, sure it is not perfect for the radius of the curve, but B-N is not a Railroad simulation. If you are making precise and correct railroad tracks simulation on TRAINZ you will see immediately the difference. Anyway, the map editor doesn’t allow you to make different radius curves that would look realistic. So, the best is to make it look good as much as we can, for the time being.

[dieseltaylor]

Snake eye:

I know that there is a restriction on what you can do with tracks. I am not a rail enthusiast but it was easy to see that loop was not realistic . Designers can make any map you want but for those not particularly familiar with rail perhaps it is worth highlighting that trains and tight curves are not at all common.

My mantra for maps is does it look right ? is the scale right? and does it make sense ?

You only have to look at some of the provided maps for QB's to realise not everyone cares! : )

BTW I did like the marshalling yard concept. I was wondering secretly if there is damage to tracks with lots of rail movement!! And the rest of the map was really good in incorporating meanders etc.

[snake_eye]

Snake eye:

I know that there is a restriction on what you can do with tracks. I am not a rail enthusiast but it was easy to see that loop was not realistic . Designers can make any map you want but for those not particularly familiar with rail perhaps it is worth highlighting that trains and tight curves are not at all common.

My mantra for maps is does it look right ? is the scale right? and does it make sense ?

You only have to look at some of the provided maps for QB's to realise not everyone cares! : )

BTW I did like the marshalling yard concept. I was wondering secretly if there is damage to tracks with lots of rail movement!! And the rest of the map was really good in incorporating meanders etc.

:DYou are right saying the curve wasn’t very realistic. That curve took me more time than you can figure to make it badly. Desperate, I decided finally to go along with it. I thought that it was too bad to remove it after all the time I had worked on it. If BF can provide us with different curves on a latter patch up game, I give you my word that I won’t do anymore the same mistake.

Here after a full view of the railroad station and of the yard, for those having not seen the scenario map. Another picture makes a zoom on the implicated curve and show what I think would be a better curve radius, if it could be done.

BTW at first, at that curve emplacement, I had thought of doing a circle and embranchments from it to simulate a rotating bridge for a steam engine depot, but it was not possible to recreate it.

As for your mantra, I have the same feeling than you have. If a map is not realistic, how the rest could be?

Cheers