Holien Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 In current game several instances of troops who were ordered into the building by having way points go for the door ways and they choose to just sit out side the building and get shot and then run in open and get shot more!! Also a couple of times with one building where there was a front door and back door. Front door in open covered by guns... Back door close to them and hidden from the guns... Both times the troops decided to run out in the open and use front door. Ohh well they would have done if they did not DIE!!! So when is a door not a door? Is this a feature? Poor Path finding? Any other instances? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Usually, if you put a waypoint just outside a door, then one inside the building, the troops will use the recommended entry. I forgot you have to be explicit about this last turn and lost a man because of it... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 Yes been doing that all four times. One building the men kept running out of and I think that was due to damage but no way of telling as astrix like CM. That was a tad annoying as they died as well.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedy Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Buildings are death traps, best to stay out of them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cymru Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Ooh ooh!! I know this one. When its ajar! got any others? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 What you may have is a bug. To know for sure you will need to send a save file along with a short explanation of the bug and where to find it. If no save file then do you know the name of the map? That and the exact location of the building in question would help. send to Mark.Ezra3591ATgmailDOTcom 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 OK Mark Will send in the morning once I find the exact issues described in the save files. Should be able to find a couple of examples and different buildings in the Last Defense. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 Ooh ooh!! I know this one. When its ajar! got any others? ROFL Made me smile 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSB Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Just a tip to choose which door will be used to leave a building without having to put a waypoint outside of it, to enter another building like in a street for example (the unit regroups before going on and it's sometimes dangerous). Give a move order inside the building your unit is already in with a face command towards the "good" door. An then, place the following waypoint directly into the other builiding. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 ahhh good tip 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 Mark, OK file sent found one example and I will have to dig back to earlier saves for more... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted July 29, 2011 Author Share Posted July 29, 2011 Just a tip to choose which door will be used to leave a building without having to put a waypoint outside of it, to enter another building like in a street for example (the unit regroups before going on and it's sometimes dangerous). Give a move order inside the building your unit is already in with a face command towards the "good" door. An then, place the following waypoint directly into the other building. Just watching the video again I think I have been plotting way points in front of door to use. This I had not noticed does mean men hold position and re group for a few secs which out in open make them easy targets. I think one group stopped and was hit and then panicked. For me they should have still run in house as house is cover!!! But no they run in open and get shot up more... So maybe some tweaks for the AI either way? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Balboa Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 What you may have is a bug. To know for sure you will need to send a save file along with a short explanation of the bug and where to find it. If no save file then do you know the name of the map? That and the exact location of the building in question would help. send to Mark.Ezra3591ATgmailDOTcom To the OP, I think what MarkEzra is eluding to is that there may be a problem with the map itself and not the game code at all. From what you are describing his suspicions seem plausible .... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Also, check to make sure there isn't some kind of map obstruction that stops them from using the door you ordered them to use. For example, if the door's on the left side of the building face and you also have a diagonal wall sticking out from the same corner of the tile, it makes the door impassable to the pixeltruppen even though it looks like there's enough space for them there. I think some of the bigger flavour objects also create obstacles. Note: the above is based on CMSF experience. Haven't seen this happen yet in CMBN. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I've got the the turn in question and will review it carefully . I will also be checking the map separately for any locked doors or obstructions. Thanks to all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1966 Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I just had a squad enter via the side of the building with no door (or windows for that matter). When I ordered them to next building, they ignored the door that opened in the right direction and went the long way by backing out through the wall with no doors and windows that they had just come through. It was almost as if the building graphic had been dropped oon the battlefield the wrong way round... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 I just had a squad enter via the side of the building with no door (or windows for that matter). When I ordered them to next building, they ignored the door that opened in the right direction and went the long way by backing out through the wall with no doors and windows that they had just come through. Maybe your troops are the disembodied spirits of fallen soldiers. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSwas71331 Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 For those unfamiliar with common English puns, a door is not a door when its ajar (slightly open) and pronounced "a jar". I think I first heard that pun around 1950. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amizaur Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Such unexpected behaviour of troops (as well as vehicles) - you plot them a movement but you have no idea what path will they choose - is another argument for redoing the path plotting - pathfinding part of game engine. Currently in WEGO mode, a player is plotting a path, which is stored and plotted on map (whenever it's possible path or not). Then after clicking "GO" and the unit starts to move (or when a unit comes to an obstacle, not sure) the "pathfinding" part of the code is used to check and modify the path, if the player's one is impossible for some reason. New path is plotted and the unit is going on... to be killed sometimes. And the player can only watch it.... Let the path to be analysed by the "pathfinding" algorithm just after it was laid, and show to the player the modified version. It would only take a second - in real time game the path is modified "on the fly" with no delay, so the alghoritm is efficient enough. Then a player could see the resulted path and notice that it was modified by the game because there is no passage somewhere. And choose another one, if the one plotted by computer causes any dangers. All of this in orders phase. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Very good point Amizaur 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockinHarry Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Such unexpected behaviour of troops (as well as vehicles) - you plot them a movement but you have no idea what path will they choose - is another argument for redoing the path plotting - pathfinding part of game engine. Currently in WEGO mode, a player is plotting a path, which is stored and plotted on map (whenever it's possible path or not). Then after clicking "GO" and the unit starts to move (or when a unit comes to an obstacle, not sure) the "pathfinding" part of the code is used to check and modify the path, if the player's one is impossible for some reason. New path is plotted and the unit is going on... to be killed sometimes. And the player can only watch it.... Let the path to be analysed by the "pathfinding" algorithm just after it was laid, and show to the player the modified version. It would only take a second - in real time game the path is modified "on the fly" with no delay, so the alghoritm is efficient enough. Then a player could see the resulted path and notice that it was modified by the game because there is no passage somewhere. And choose another one, if the one plotted by computer causes any dangers. All of this in orders phase. +1 ...actually ...but there also might be some unforeseeable events coming during computing the "action phase", that might interfer with moving and pathfinding. Spotting enemy units, receiving fire, suppression...and so on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted July 30, 2011 Author Share Posted July 30, 2011 Fair enough RockinHarry but that was not what was being dealt with. It is worth doing if possible as it will solve some issues and we will have to accept stuff that happens during the game turn... A Good suggestion from Amizaur lets hope it is possible. For example that solution would have shown that my men would not be using the back door for some reason and the system would have replotted to the front door. In the other example it looks likely that was loss of morale before entering the building as I had a way point outside the door and the men paused and got whacked (no one died) but they were fragile and enough perhaps to lose heart. What I think they should have done is dive into the house as nearest available cover but instead they ran out in open to get hit by more fire... This might need another tweak if possible. The third issue is men going into a building and then leaving very quickly as if scared of the building (maybe ghosts) If this has been coded in to the game then we as players will have to examine the building skins to see how badly damaged. The previous CM made this easy with * and ** if I remember correctly. I can see why this approach for real;ism has been dropped so it requires players to learn / adopt new styles of play. H 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSB Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 If the unit has no idea of where the shots are coming from, they might consider entering a non reckoned building as being even more dangerous. I always try to put waypoints in "safe" locations. The experience level of the unit has an influence on the regrouping delay, and I guess the leader value does also. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted July 30, 2011 Author Share Posted July 30, 2011 If the unit has no idea of where the shots are coming from, they might consider entering a non reckoned building as being even more dangerous. I always try to put waypoints in "safe" locations. The experience level of the unit has an influence on the regrouping delay, and I guess the leader value does also. Yes and they might be told by a Hamster they carry with them that it is better to dance out in the open ground.. Lots of mights!!! I have no Army training so would be interested to know what is trained to troops? You have been told to take a building and you get to the front door and then you are fired at from a direction that is totally opposite from the building. What should troops do? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSB Posted July 30, 2011 Share Posted July 30, 2011 Dynamights! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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