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Help with Tank Combat


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Hello:

Would appreciate any advice. Really struggling with tank combat. Trying Chance Encounter v2 and in the first encounter with the enemy, one StuG is destroyed and another has the main gun destroyed. Out of 3 tanks. The feeling is worse as tank combat is so binary. If infantry is hit, you might lose a man or two, rarely the whole squad at one time.

With this mission it seemed that one Sherman had a good position and when you move your tanks over a ridge he will have the first shot. How do you combat that?

Thanks,

Gerry

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Rather like in CMSF, you probably want to lead with inf, locate the enemy tank and other forces, then plot a route that will take the enemy in the flank, or at least be hull-down to the enemy armor so he's less likely to kill you first shot. Also, manouver with more than one tank. Ideally you want to have 3:1 ratio.

You can also order the tank to use smoke to cover his movement.

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Hello:

Would appreciate any advice. Really struggling with tank combat. Trying Chance Encounter v2 and in the first encounter with the enemy, one StuG is destroyed and another has the main gun destroyed. Out of 3 tanks. The feeling is worse as tank combat is so binary. If infantry is hit, you might lose a man or two, rarely the whole squad at one time.

With this mission it seemed that one Sherman had a good position and when you move your tanks over a ridge he will have the first shot. How do you combat that?

Thanks,

Gerry

LOL

This is the essence of CM precisely. Exactly! how do you combat that?

Do a search in the tactic and strategies forum for the old CM or even here. Plenty of good advice.

Spotting: As a starter, spotting first is key. As pointed out above, scout as best you can and try and detect before being detected. Also, a moving tank is spotted faster than a still one, thats probably why the Sherman got shots at you first. Once you know where they are you can try and flank them with your own tanks (turrets turning time is key), or attract their fire first with a semi squad on the flank and then time your own shermans over the ridge to fire.

Armour/ballistsics: Know your tanks, and the enemies, know what can cope with what and from which angles, position accordingly

Hull down, higher ground-slopes: As a general rule positioning your tanks in hull down and if possible in higher ground or upward slopes (with respect to your enemies) will make your tank´s impact angles the worst possible for your opponent (and viceversa) therefore extending the life of your tanks.

Numbers: try to maximize the number of your own tanks firing to each of the enemies. 3 shots vs 1 per each 10-15 seconds will increase your odds, specially if you spotted first.

Etc etc etc etc etc etc

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A moving tank often has a disadvantage in spotting ability and (with the patch) hit probability. Ideally you'd get yourself well positioned, sit and let him come to you piecemeal. If he doesn't come to you that can make for a dull game but it at least means he's not advancing and you're not losing armor. Most times that I lose a tank its due to my own impatience.

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Hello:

I thought the tanks would go in just behind the infantry to support them. But the ideas here seem to say hold off to do the scouting. So could that take up to say .25 of scenario time before you move up the tanks. Or even longer? I guess I am asking how patient are most strong players in terms of waiting.

Against a human player I suppose the defender counters this by holding fire with his tanks. A game of cat and mouse?

In terms of smoke, I assume you have to lay it down before you go over that ridge. Otherwise it would just be too late as a set defender seems to get a few quick shots.

Thanks again for the tips.

Gerry

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Hello:

I thought the tanks would go in just behind the infantry to support them.

They're no good as support until the threats to them are neutralised, that's the problem, really. Tanks are theoretically supposed to be good at neutralising the things that threaten them, but you have to set things up so that it's not a fair fight :)

But the ideas here seem to say hold off to do the scouting. So could that take up to say .25 of scenario time before you move up the tanks. Or even longer? I guess I am asking how patient are most strong players in terms of waiting.

I don't think there can be a hard and fast rule. It will depend on your objectives and what you're facing. In the end there's no point saying "Welp, 15 minutes gone, and we've only got an hour, so better roll those tanks over the brow, even if we know the enemy are just going to turkey-shoot 'em." Cos then you won't have any tanks, and having 45m to get to your objectives isn't going to help if you've just wasted 30% of your force, points-wise. Scout until you think you know enough. If you're going to use a tank to draw enemy AT fire, make sure you've got lots of infantry-eyes watching so that you actually learn something. But that's still part of 'recon'.

Against a human player I suppose the defender counters this by holding fire with his tanks. A game of cat and mouse?

Quite, where the cat is very small and stalking a mouse which is on vitamin pills. Building the pressure with your infantry on the defending infantry will start to force the defender to employ their armour assets in order to save their footsloggers. Or at least that's an aspect of the plan.

In terms of smoke, I assume you have to lay it down before you go over that ridge. Otherwise it would just be too late as a set defender seems to get a few quick shots.

Yeah. No point coming out from behind one set of concealment until your next set is ready.

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<snip>lead with inf, locate the enemy tank and other forces, then plot a route that will take the enemy in the flank, or at least be hull-down to the enemy armor so he's less likely to kill you first shot. Also, manouver with more than one tank. Ideally you want to have 3:1 ratio.

You can also order the tank to use smoke to cover his movement.

I would only add to this that just before you strike with your tanks try to get the target tank to button up. Use that infantry that you used to find the tank in the first place to scare the tank commander into closing up. That way the target tank has less ability to spot and is distracted by another target - your infantry that shot at him. 30s latter your tanks come over the ridge, behind the trees or whatever with your tank commanders open and spotting. That will help with the odds of who see's who first and who get first shot.

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I would only add to this that just before you strike with your tanks try to get the target tank to button up. Use that infantry that you used to find the tank in the first place to scare the tank commander into closing up. That way the target tank has less ability to spot and is distracted by another target - your infantry that shot at him. 30s latter your tanks come over the ridge, behind the trees or whatever with your tank commanders open and spotting. That will help with the odds of who see's who first and who get first shot.

Anything that makes the target button up is a pretty good idea: mortar fire, artillery, mgs, snipers, small arms are all good for that.

I once cleared a village full of Panthers with an M10 and a 57mm mostly by using infantry to keep the Panthers buttoned up and spotted.

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Scout with infantry. If you locate a tank, you move your own AT assets up to shooting range from the flank or rear using a concealed route of approach. Also, point artillery 105mm and up is pretty effective against tanks plus it will suppress any infantry support nearby and the dust/smoke will block the enemy's view while you maneuver.

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I second the advice that scouting is everything. For those who have played Stratego, think of your tanks as your 1 and 2. You don't go rushing forward with them into the unknown, but keep them safely anonymous (or hidden/defilade in CM's case) while your 9s (aka infantry teams) see what's what.

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In fact, this is where the strength of the flexible TO&E comes into its own. Have a squad create a scout team. (Some squads can create several scout teams.) Use them to find the enemy. Short covered arcs will keep them from shooting. (That's important for their survival. Two man teams don't survive a firefight for too long. As well, a scout team which is unspotted will perform surveillance so much better.)

Put them in good LOS locations. Base your subsequent moves on INTEL, not INTUITION.

On defense, scout teams perform picket duty.

MikeyD put it very succinctly; impatience is often the cause of tank losses.

If you can avoid it, do not ever advance a tank into a location already under the gun of an enemy tank. Flanks or rears are best. :)

Let us know when you get it all figured out. I'm still trying. ;)

Ken

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