picking up weapons an ammo from fallen mates

[JG11Preusse]

hello,

i saw that soldiers share ammunition automatically, when they are near each other. did they also take ammunition from a teammate or from other dead soldiers ?

at least in special teams like panzerschreck or sniper teams it happens that if one man of the team get lost, you will have a soldier still alive with panzerschreck ammunition only, but no panzerschreck.

the only way i found out is to give first aid to the teammate and then he picks the weapon automatically.

same way it works with sniper teams.

wouldnt it be better to take the wep automatically or give the option to pick it up by the user ?

besides i saw that solders give first aid to comrades and when they are ready, they look and observe a total wrong position afterwards.

you manually have to give the order to look into the correct position, where he observed before giving first aid.

its no problem at small qb-maps with a handfull of army, but on big maps, missions or campains, someone will lost the overview.

better the soldiers who helped injured mates will pick up their former job (orders) andgo further with their former given tasks.

[Magpie_Oz]

I think the idea of the buddy aid before picking up is to give a certain degree of choice to the player as to whether they pick up the weapons or not.

I guess it simulates the process of getting the weapon and ammo etc

[JG11Preusse]

I think the idea of the buddy aid before picking up is to give a certain degree of choice to the player as to whether they pick up the weapons or not.

I guess it simulates the process of getting the weapon and ammo etc

if there are dead teammates for example you only need to take ammunition or weapons, thats all. ammunition sometimes get very low and then everyone picks up what he can.

also if you lost you team mate who was carrying the mainweapon, you can not run into the deadly zone an doing fist aid for a long time while all the bullets are flying arround your head, to get the maingun.

if possible you can try to draw your mate out of the fireline and then try to help, but not the way as it is done in this game.

in other games with this subject, you also can take weapos, ammunition from dead soldiers, even from enemy ones. in cm: normandy you cant do either this or that or maybe i dont know how to do it.7

i wish you can choose if you want to pick up items or the k.i has to be smart enough to do it themselfes

[JSB]

Buddy aid for dead team mates takes a few seconds and is only consisting - if I'm right - in picking up the ammo/weapons.

For a wounded team mate, I guess it's assumed that soldiers are human beings enclined to give assist to their buddy before picking up his weapon...

One solution is to order area fire on the wounded guy location: a few grenades and the problem should be resolved

[rocketman]

Can soldiers from one platoon do buddy aid/get ammo/weapons to soldiers in another platoon/squad? I know that you can't do that with sharing ammo.

[Magpie_Oz]

Buddy aid can be done by anyone, in a lot of cases players use the XO for buddy aid so the rest of the unit is not delayed. This does have an impact on whether weapons are retrieved or not. Not sure on what happens if units from other platoons give buddy aid in terms of guns and ammo.

While "running into the deadly zone an doing first aid for a long time" may not be what you want to have happen but I cannot imagine a situation where a solider would simply take the weapons and ammo off a live buddy without attempting some form of aid. Nice touch there is "solve" a problem by killing your men. Even if dead it will take an appreciable time to get ammo etc of a body.

Weapons and ammo are retrieved, but the nature of what is taken and under what circumstances, including the pros and cons of taking enemy weapons has been debated at length with varying opinion as to what constitutes "real" behaviour and what doesn't.

As always BFC have made a choice that seems to cover many likely situations.

[JG11Preusse]

Buddy aid can be done by anyone, in a lot of cases players use the XO for buddy aid so the rest of the unit is not delayed. This does have an impact on whether weapons are retrieved or not. Not sure on what happens if units from other platoons give buddy aid in terms of guns and ammo.

While "running into the deadly zone an doing first aid for a long time" may not be what you want to have happen but I cannot imagine a situation where a solider would simply take the weapons and ammo off a live buddy without attempting some form of aid. Nice touch there is "solve" a problem by killing your men. Even if dead it will take an appreciable time to get ammo etc of a body.

Weapons and ammo are retrieved, but the nature of what is taken and under what circumstances, including the pros and cons of taking enemy weapons has been debated at length with varying opinion as to what constitutes "real" behaviour and what doesn't.

As always BFC have made a choice that seems to cover many likely situations.

this is a game and you all time about what can happen in real and what is maybe realistic at these or that circimstances. you have an explanation for almost all strange things, because in real war its like this or that and now you want to tell me such things like the red marked sentence ??? bbahhhhhhhhhhh ... thats is strange ....

your kind of argumentation looks like "from where the wind blows" ... whatever fits to your argumentation is good, all other is minor good.

also not good and human things are realistic or do you think a war is aslo only a game where everyon acts like in a hollywood movie ?

[Blackcat]

Sheesh, Mr. Preusse, we know that English is not your first language so nobody is worried when you don't pick up on the nuances in a post. However, maybe you might want to think about the fact that people do use language constructions such as sarcasm, irony, hyperbole etc. before you respond because then you are more likely to catch the meaning of posts such as that by Mr. OZ.

[Magpie_Oz]

this is a game

Who's objective is to model or possibly simulate reality. Many of the answers you are looking for are based on what is perceived to happen in reality.

I offer suggestions as to why things might be as they are in the game, not answers.

also not good and human things are realistic or do you think a war is aslo only a game where everyon acts like in a hollywood movie ?

I have no idea what you are talking about can you explain a little more what you mean?

The stuff you put in red is a comment I made mainly because it contrasts markedly with another thread on the forums where a number of players find their game play suffers because they feel compelled to spend a lot of time caring for the casualties, something they never did in earlier incarnations of the game. The red bit was also directed at JSB as it was he who suggested the buddy aid problem could be fixed with high explosive, thought that was obvious, my bad.

[JG11Preusse]

Sheesh, Mr. Preusse,

we know that English is not your first language so nobody is worried when you don't pick up on the nuances in a post. However, maybe you might want to think about the fact that people do use language constructions such as sarcasm, irony, hyperbole etc. before you respond because then you are more likely to catch the meaning of posts such as that by Mr. OZ.

ah mr english teacher is back ..... dont care, i dont read your posts.

and if you have to say something smart, then please talk about you and dont start your sentences with "we" ... or are you a whole club and you talk for many others ?

[Magpie_Oz]

ah mr english teacher is back ..... dont care, i dont read your posts.

and if you have to say something smart, then please talk about you and dont start your sentences with "we" ... or are you a whole club and you talk for many others ?

How do you know his sentences start with we if you don't read his posts?

Actually Blackcat is one of the few who actually has something to say that is worth listening to, so might be a good plan to no be so petulant and take on board a bit of what he has to say.

[Stuka]

Don't confuse JG11Prissy with logic, it gives him a headache.

[JG11Preusse]

Who's objective is to model or possibly simulate reality. Many of the answers you are looking for are based on what is perceived to happen in reality.I offer suggestions as to why things might be as they are in the game, not answers.

I have no idea what you are talking about can you explain a little more what you mean?

The stuff you put in red is a comment I made mainly because it contrasts markedly with another thread on the forums where a number of players find their game play suffers because they feel compelled to spend a lot of time caring for the casualties, something they never did in earlier incarnations of the game. The red bit was also directed at JSB as it was he who suggested the buddy aid problem could be fixed with high explosive, thought that was obvious, my bad.

if i read many answers to this or that problem or topic, it seems that there is a object to simulate reality.

the green marked question to this sentence: "also not good and human things are realistic or do you think a war is aslo only a game where everyon acts like in a hollywood movie ? "

i will try to explain what i meant.

regarding "solve a problem by killing a man", i tried to say, that for sure it is a "worse" thing to kill a man, but its also the truth that f.e. at war times also soldiers look at their lifes only. every human has a different character, one cant let a mate leave there, without doing everything to help him, others care their lifes first and before running out of ammunition, they pick up ammu (or whatever) first in aware that their situation will be worse without ammunition.

all i suggested was that in this game its maybe better that the AI itselfs picks up ammunition or weapons or the player should have the option to do this. in theatre of war and kharkov 1943 for example it is possible.

it is not seldom that i meet soldiers in my quickbattles, which have a gun, no ammunition for it or they have panzerschreckammunition, but no panzerschreck.

in smal scenarios it is maybe possible to keep an eye on this, but in large battle scenarios it is almost impossible to overview this.

have to say that i only play realtime and i hit the icon on a troup, i will be aware of this situation sometimes, but then i can not send my soldier with panzerschreckammu only back to search for his mate, who carried the gun.

hope this time it was understandabloe english, if not please ask again, then i will try again

p.s.

"

Don't confuse JG11Prissy with logic, it gives him a headache.

wondering that people who write things for blaming only, are talking about "logic"

[Magpie_Oz]

wondering that people who write things for blaming only, are talking about "logic"

Sometimes it is more about what isn't written that is what is the true meaning, "reading between the lines".

Perhaps Stuka was suggesting that the manner in which you express yourself sometimes actually offends or turns away those who are wishing to help and discuss your posts to work though the issue at hand.

Turning away a helping hand is not really logical is it.

[JG11Preusse]

Sometimes it is more about what isn't written that is what is the true meaning, "reading between the lines".

Perhaps Stuka was suggesting that the manner in which you express yourself sometimes actually offends or turns away those who are wishing to help and discuss your posts to work though the issue at hand.

Turning away a helping hand is not really logical is it.

but well knowing of a language problem and steady raise fingers is helpfull, isnt it ?

also insult people is very helpfull.

a helping hand looks different i guess and even if i try to return to the topic, you again try to stear the discussion to a personel level .

if you dont like me, i dont have a problem with it and if you dont like what i write or the way i write it, ignore me and ready.

not wondering to see such sentence at the end of stukas postings "Stuka walks with the Phantom and cannot die * Magpie_Oz"

please just ignore me, dont answer if you think i only write rubbish and dont try to heat up discussion level for your personal enjoyment.l

[winkelried]

regarding "solve a problem by killing a man", i tried to say, that for sure it is a "worse" thing to kill a man, but its also the truth that f.e. at war times also soldiers look at their lifes only. every human has a different character, one cant let a mate leave there, without doing everything to help him, others care their lifes first and before running out of ammunition, they pick up ammu (or whatever) first in aware that their situation will be worse without ammunition.

maybe this also a question of the level of training and experience of a unit - especially in infantry where small unit cohesion and mutual support is a key factor for success (and also for survival).

[Magpie_Oz]

maybe this also a question of the level of training and experience of a unit - especially in infantry where small unit cohesion and mutual support is a key factor for success (and also for survival).

Things is debate varies, does a well trained unit render aid instead of retrieving weapons?

You could say a well trained unit stays on task and so would pick up the weapon and complete the mission, on that other hand professional soldiers look after each other more than a scared conscript might.

Then again a conscript might be more disposed to getting an important weapon back in action to save himself, then again he may not have the level of where with all and simply look after his friends.

There is no definitive answer and which ever way BFC model it there are going to be those who say "the game is retarded and (insert alternate game's name here) is better because it does what I want it to" and those who say "BFC have got it right don't be silly".

[winkelried]

You could say a well trained unit stays on task and so would pick up the weapon and complete the mission, on that other hand professional soldiers look after each other more than a scared conscript might.

I think the BF model is pretty much ok - it's just a model and you need to get used to it. It will never reflect reality 100% - no model does.

Experience and training should matter - but also the situation is an important factor - at least how it is perceived by the individual and the group.

[Magpie_Oz]

- but also the situation is an important factor - at least how it is perceived by the individual and the group.

I think you might have it there, the player perception is probably pretty different to the pixeltruppen perception.

[liquidcactus]

I am indeed confused by Preusse and his odd responses.

I think Blackcat is correct.

[winkelried]

I think Blackcat is correct.

Yes and No. For somebody with a non anglo-saxon background - just like me - it is sometimes difficult to grasp some of the finer aspects of this language. nevertheless everybody reacts differently to this situation.

[Wego McPbem]

Just someting I noticed in my current game in relation to this. I had a two man panzerschreck team take a casualty (the assistant) and the remaining member still had access to six rounds when he was next to the casualty. Then, after buddy aid had been performed he was left with only two. I understand the reasons why it happened but it just seemed a bit counter intuitive that I was better off in that case not giving any aid and just hanging around the casualty to be able to use his ammo.

[JSB]

I just met such a situation with a LMG split squad team.

After the gunner passed away, one of his two mates performed buddy aid, then picked the LMG but very few ammo (70+ rounds).

I brought another squad from the same section in an adjacent square to share ammo, as the firing position was good, and ordered the team to go on with its suppresive fire task.

I was surprised to see the number of bullets climb without taking ammo from the adjacent squad.

Maybe the gunner ammo are considered to remain in the action spot?