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Needed Implements: what do you feel is lacking, is missing, is buggy?


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I positioned in SLOW an HQ section to spot an Infantry cannon and direct the mortar fire; the section was supposedly in a good position to hide and observe, since they were on a small elevation inside the woods; so they directed the mortar fire spot on the enemy gun, but also started to shoot them carbine and consequently I had to run them fast from there, losing the perfect observation position; that was brilliant: engaging an infantry cannon (maybe it was 400 m away) with a carbine.

Yes. Well. If you don't tell them what you want them to do, they will do what they're expected to do. They are soldiers. Their role is to engage the enemy. If you don't want them to engage, tell them that by giving them a covered arc or a HIDE order.

carbine (always with them carbine! The majority of paras used the Garand, a much harder punch)

HQ elements used carbines. Rifle sections in the Para and Glider Bns do use the Garand.

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Jon, as I explained above, I moved them Slow (that in CMX1 was CRAWL) and after they reached their position they were supposed to Hide and Observe, instead they started to shoot their new beautiful carbine, you know, only the paras got that with the folding stock; a useless weapon, almost as the grease gun. A sure way to get killed fast.

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Did you order them to hide? If not, then so what if they had a carbine? They've got what they've got, and you sent them to a position where the had a significant piece of enemy kit in view. Damn right they should have engaged it.

If you really don't want them to engage I'd recommend a covered arc, although a HIDE often work as well.

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Certainly not a needed or really even "lacking" feature, but the ability to view a completed battle as a whole battle rather than manually loading 1 min. segments would increase my enjoyment of the game a great deal. If BFC wanted the price of a module for just that... well, I might not go that far. But I'd be tempted.

As long as I'm wishing: How about the ability to pre-plan multiple missions for 1 arty asset. (Short heavy *here* on turn 1, Quick Medium *here* on turn 5....) Or have the ability to buy arty in QBs with smaller ammo loads. (To split into multiple missions.) Or plan barrages for minutes 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, or 9. (I can see that min. 7 would be of little use and not worth coding.)

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In theory any soldier should be able to drive and operate a tank. But, in the real world, it just doesn't work that way.

No they aren't. They're mortarmen waiting for more ammo.

Ever spend time in the infantry? I have. Even as an 11b I knew the basics of how a mortar worked, and I could put on into action if I had to. That falls under the catagory of a 'life saving' skill. The comparison to opetating a tank just isn't valid.

As to waiting for more ammo, yea, that doesn't really work in a fire fight. Run out of bombs and the mortar section is a a platoon of reinforcements. It's either than or sit next to your tube and wait to die, your choice.

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Oh, jeez. Not the "I've been a soldier so you don't know WTF you're talking about" mindless appeal to authority. Again. It's bring, it's wrong, and it's out of line. You come across as a mong. It's also wildly misplaced.

With using the mortars as emergency infantry, you're talking about the exception. The problem is that what is exceptional in the Real World tend to become the norm in CM. If the game allowed players to abandon the mortars and fight the crews on as infantry, guess what would happen, in practically every game. As it is now, you can quite happily use your mortars as rifles, if you want, it's just they aren't great at it. This is a Good Thing.

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Oh, jeez. Not the "I've been a soldier so you don't know WTF you're talking about" mindless appeal to authority. Again. It's bring, it's wrong, and it's out of line. You come across as a mong. It's also wildly misplaced.

With using the mortars as emergency infantry, you're talking about the exception. The problem is that what is exceptional in the Real World tend to become the norm in CM. If the game allowed players to abandon the mortars and fight the crews on as infantry, guess what would happen, in practically every game. As it is now, you can quite happily use your mortars as rifles, if you want, it's just they aren't great at it. This is a Good Thing.

What you fail to understand is it doesn't matter what part of the infantry you're in, you're still a rifleman first. TWATS, (tankers without a tank), are luckey if they all have a weapon if they have to bail out because of the tank goes up, there goes all your stuff. AT and towed artillery aren't infantry, but mortars are. They are indirect fire infantry just like bazooka teams are anti armor infantry. BTW, the 60mm tubes move with the platoon as organic fire support. The range of a 60mm isn't out of small arms range, so the crews know they may be fighting the battle with their rifles as well.

Sorry of this came off as harsh, that wasn't my intention. If all you want is a game, get an X-Box. Given the level of detail than CM is striving for with this engine, I want more realism and less 'gaming'.

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Not only they behave very carelessly, but also without any fear: I positioned in SLOW an HQ section to spot an Infantry cannon and direct the mortar fire; the section was supposedly in a good position to hide and observe, since they were on a small elevation inside the woods; so they directed the mortar fire spot on the enemy gun, but also started to shoot them carbine (always with them carbine! The majority of paras used the Garand, a much harder punch) and consequently I had to run them fast from there, losing the perfect observation position; that was brilliant: engaging an infantry cannon (maybe it was 400 m away) with a carbine. A sure way to go to Kingdom Come.

The answer to that is to give them a very short (<10 meter) 360° cover arc.

Michael

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I've saved that phase, so I can reload it and check all the different parameters: as I recall it I ordered the HQ section to SLOW up the knob INSIDE the woods to HIDE and as soon as they were in position I ordered them to guide the Mortar rounds to the now in sight Inf Gun. Which they did, but also gave away their position by shooting those enlarged pistols called carbines (eheheh: I LOVE them carbines...).

About the mortar crew I believe in game they can shoot also their personal weapons (carbines, anyone?), but their real handicap is about the movement, since they keep carrying their tube and base, though I should add I was surprised on how fast and far you can order HW squads in CMX2 compared to CMX1: maybe too gamey?

Definitely, I'm now hooked up for good, even if I'm not so appreciative of the merchandise strategy adopted by BF, if I may say so. Are we again back to the old ways? First BO, then a different game altogether BB, and thereafter another game AK: I would eagerly vote for a SINGLE ENGINED game, eventually patched and updated to add 3D models, corrections, bug removal; thereafter I would buy any Historical module created (a la ASL) with whole armies, scenarios, maps... etc.

In this way if tomorrow I want to research the Polish Campaign, to create a module, wouldn't be that hard and still sell to all us grognard very well...

Hopefully they are doin' just that!

Thanks for reading (and writing your comments).

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Just to clarify: I'm in no position or in the knowledge to tell BF what they have to chose as a marketing strategy, or a development direction! I'd been working for a while in the VG industry as a tech consultant for 3D SW, so my FOV may be somewhat narrow and limited...

In any case for those who don't know, Advanced Squad Leader (a tabletop cardboard tactical war game) come in Modules; first and foremost is The Book of Rules, and this IMO should be the .exe, The Program: you may call it for example Combat Mission Tactical Wargame Simulator, or CM Thin Red Line, CM Red Badge Of Courage...

To go back to the ASL analogy, you can expand your game buying Modules: for example Hollow Legions included the whole roster for the Italian Army during WWII, a few new mounted maps, and a dozen of new scenarios to play both on the new maps or the old ones. So you'll have a single Program you can Update, Patch, etc.; to this single Program you can ADD many Addon Modules that can comprehend a variety of time periods, weapons, armies, etc.

Now and then you are also getting ASL DeLuxe Modules: beuatifully detailed and dedicated maps to some particular battle: Pegasus Bridge, Red Barrikady, etc. With these you get a whole set of scenario to play on the dedicated maps, and some special additional counters. In all the addon you may eventually get some additional Rules' Pages to add to the Book of Rules.

I don't know if this would be feasible at this point of development with CMX2, but I feel would be a brilliant solution to an already brilliant and unique product.

Cheers

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Just to clarify: I'm in no position or in the knowledge to tell BF what they have to chose as a marketing strategy, or a development direction! I'd been working for a while in the VG industry as a tech consultant for 3D SW, so my FOV may be somewhat narrow and limited...

In any case for those who don't know, Advanced Squad Leader (a tabletop cardboard tactical war game) come in Modules; first and foremost is The Book of Rules, and this IMO should be the .exe, The Program: you may call it for example Combat Mission Tactical Wargame Simulator, or CM Thin Red Line, CM Red Badge Of Courage...

To go back to the ASL analogy, you can expand your game buying Modules: for example Hollow Legions included the whole roster for the Italian Army during WWII, a few new mounted maps, and a dozen of new scenarios to play both on the new maps or the old ones. So you'll have a single Program you can Update, Patch, etc.; to this single Program you can ADD many Addon Modules that can comprehend a variety of time periods, weapons, armies, etc.

Now and then you are also getting ASL DeLuxe Modules: beuatifully detailed and dedicated maps to some particular battle: Pegasus Bridge, Red Barrikady, etc. With these you get a whole set of scenario to play on the dedicated maps, and some special additional counters. In all the addon you may eventually get some additional Rules' Pages to add to the Book of Rules.

I don't know if this would be feasible at this point of development with CMX2, but I feel would be a brilliant solution to an already brilliant and unique product.

Cheers

I have a sneaking suspicion that BFC is familiar with the modules concept ;).

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?page=shop.cart&func=cartAdd&product_id=248&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26

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Yep! I've noticed that all right: then I ask myself, why they had to make another program installation for CMBN? To go back again to the ASL idea, wasn't it possible for BF to create a single Universal program, where you can later add ANY time period/theater of operation? I repeat, I can't say this is feasible at all, but that would be Great! Are you a Civil War Nut? Then here is the Gettysburg! Module; do you want to research the battles in WWII New Guinea? Here is the Kokoda Trail Inferno; and so on... All these Modules just installing Units, weaponry, scenarios and maps handled by the same exec, and staying on the same directory (but this is not mandatory).

Eventually we will get one CM WWI, another CM WWII, a CM Modern and a CM Heritage, and this would be a great improvement from CMX1, at least one I can greatly appreciate.

This of course is just my 2c.

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Yep! I've noticed that all right: then I ask myself, why they had to make another program installation for CMBN? To go back again to the ASL idea, wasn't it possible for BF to create a single Universal program, where you can later add ANY time period/theater of operation? I repeat, I can't say this is feasible at all, but that would be Great! Are you a Civil War Nut? Then here is the Gettysburg! Module; do you want to research the battles in WWII New Guinea? Here is the Kokoda Trail Inferno; and so on... All these Modules just installing Units, weaponry, scenarios and maps handled by the same exec, and staying on the same directory (but this is not mandatory).

Eventually we will get one CM WWI, another CM WWII, a CM Modern and a CM Heritage, and this would be a great improvement from CMX1, at least one I can greatly appreciate.

This of course is just my 2c.

I think they call this the CMx2 game engine!

With respect, this is a terrible 2C.

It would be absolutely horrific to know that CMBN was so generic that a civil war module could be plugged in. Or would you still like to be playing CMBO with a newly plugged in module?

BF have got it absolutely spot on.

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I think they call this the CMx2 game engine!

With respect, this is a terrible 2C.

It would be absolutely horrific to know that CMBN was so generic that a civil war module could be plugged in. Or would you still like to be playing CMBO with a newly plugged in module?

BF have got it absolutely spot on.

As I understand it the reason Bulge is another family isn't an issue of the game engine, but rather all the environmental components, buildings, terrain etc. While the Market garden module will add some Holland specific items like I assume dikes and Dutch building structure (and of course tulips), the Bulge module will have to address snow, ice etc as well as different ToEs and late war vehicles etc.

personally I'd love to see this engine applied in a Vietnam setting, but I expect I will be waiting a very long time for that.

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Yep! I've noticed that all right: then I ask myself, why they had to make another program installation for CMBN? To go back again to the ASL idea, wasn't it possible for BF to create a single Universal program, where you can later add ANY time period/theater of operation? I repeat, I can't say this is feasible at all, but that would be Great! Are you a Civil War Nut? Then here is the Gettysburg! Module; do you want to research the battles in WWII New Guinea? Here is the Kokoda Trail Inferno; and so on... All these Modules just installing Units, weaponry, scenarios and maps handled by the same exec, and staying on the same directory (but this is not mandatory).

Eventually we will get one CM WWI, another CM WWII, a CM Modern and a CM Heritage, and this would be a great improvement from CMX1, at least one I can greatly appreciate.

This of course is just my 2c.

Because it allows them to break with old code and start afresh if necessary.

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As I understand it the reason Bulge is another family isn't an issue of the game engine, but rather all the environmental components, buildings, terrain etc. While the Market garden module will add some Holland specific items like I assume dikes and Dutch building structure (and of course tulips), the Bulge module will have to address snow, ice etc as well as different ToEs and late war vehicles etc.

Exactly.

What did you think I meant?

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Exactly.

What did you think I meant?

Just expounding on it and what a "module" means for CM versus a new family. Honestly am not sure I really fully understand the difference and how much is hard coded per family, but apparently what I thought you meant was correct.

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Sorry, my mistake: maybe I wasn't clear enough. As I stated I cannot say for sure this is a viable idea at this point of development; I never thought the engine would have been a generic one, but one that can calculate and comprehend all kinds of variables, as it already appears to be in some measure: firing an M16 or an M1, snow or dry movements, etc: this is called CMX2, i'n it? I can also see that a near future tech development, may again open up for new possibilities and solutions, graphically or otherwise. Still I like the idea: once you've found an effective GUI, optimal Graphic solutions, effective AI and random variables in one program, why should you install a second one to execute those variables and load those graphics? Use the same program, and let the user choose what to load: I believe this may be called Open Architecture in IT.

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While the Market garden module will add some Holland specific items like I assume dikes and Dutch building structure (and of course tulips), the Bulge module will have to address snow, ice etc as well as different ToEs and late war vehicles etc.

I would like to point out that Market Garden wasn't fought in Holland, which is the Western part of the country, but in Brabant (South of the Meuse) and Gelderland (Nijmegen and Arnhem), which are other parts of the Netherlands.

The only time this general area was officially designated Holland, was under the rule of the Corsican Louis Napoleon, the Kingdom of Holland 1806-1810, but that name was coined by bloody foreigners who didn't know better.

Before that it was the Republic of the Seven United Netherlands, afterwards the Kingdom of the Netherlands.

Tulip fields are especially a thing of Holland, and you will not find them in Brabant and Gelderland. (a few can be found in Friesland and Groningen though, but nothing like the fields next to the North Sea coast in Holland).

Polder dikes can be found all along the rivers in Brabant and Gelderland, but that is a common thing all along the North Sea from Western Flanders till Southern Denmark, which is geophysically more or less a unity.

They were even introduced in East Anglia by the Dutch under King William III.

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Why I was thus reflecting on modularity? Well, I was just thinking about the imposed limits to the CMX1 publications: at first it came BO and everybody started to have fun, developing many nice Mods and Utilities; it had a large arsenal, so it was possible to play the ETO from 1944 to 1945; later on here it came the BB to expand to the Eastern Front and a whole different and expanded arsenal: but here we had a decisive leap in the game engine, adding and correcting many different options and issues, but then all of the BO got lost in comparison, and you were kind of obliged to play only Russia, since BO looked a bit too much simplistic, and besides none of the model or graphics were usable anymore in BB; last we got AK and it kept the same game solutions adopted in BB, but instead we had a whole new arsenal both for the weapons and for many games element (houses, trees etc.).

All of this to me was a serious handicap: a fragmented project where neither the community of Modders, nor some eventual third party would ever like to venture with effective (game wise) results.

Take for example the most successful (Photo)Graphic program Adobe Photoshop: I'm using it since version 3, and I can still use the same tools I used then; of course I have many new tools I can turn to lately, and many have been refined, but at the same time you have the exact impression you are using the same program, either Win or Mac. Another great opportunity in PS is to install and use PlugIns (Modules) that can accomplish and expand the effectiveness and possibilities of the program enormously: they can even open their own interface (somewhat similar to the host program) where you can play your choices.

The program is there to accomplish some calculations (elaborate images) and can do that even better using one of the installed or already included plugin. The GUI remains constant and the armory of tools can be expanded both with different versions upgrades, or external developed modules (Open Architecture or SDK).

Suppose you have a CMTWS where you have a very refined engine that can calculate a bullet's trajectory either if it is an arrow (or a stone) or a photon beam, that can keep track of any form of terrain or weather, and so on; after you install that you may have a PlugIn to restrict those capability to some specific aspect: Roman Legions in Africa, 300 BC: have you got the idea? Each module may have some different set of tools, conforming to the necessary options to play that era, load the proper 3D models for terrain, soldiers, weapons, and so on.

This would be expanding enormously the potentiality for others to develop on your terms, as producer of this engine, and further attract any type of war gamer, and I believe you need that since I'm not sure there are soooo many around the world.

Here is my idea, again a 2c possibly even a bad one, and anyway you cannot buy anything anymore with a dime today.

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I would like to point out that Market Garden wasn't fought in Holland, which is the Western part of the country, but in Brabant (South of the Meuse) and Gelderland (Nijmegen and Arnhem), which are other parts of the Netherlands.

My most humble apologies to the people of the Netherlands. I promise if visiting I will not simply speak louder if I have any issues conversing.

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My most humble apologies to the people of the Netherlands. I promise if visiting I will not simply speak louder if I have any issues conversing.

The wonderful thing is that in the Neatherlands you don't have to they all speak good English (better than some English oiks, in fact), unless you bump into some of their new entrants in which case Urdu is a better bet.

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Completely unrelated but still in the right thread I think:

I could be wrong but shadows seem to show as normal on maps where it's raining, even if it's a thunderstorm. Not a huge issue, just looks a little funny IMO. Would it be possible to maybe lower the general lighting level by an appropriate amount (maybe depending on whether it's a storm or just rain) if it's raining on a map? Then the shadows wouldn't be as noticeable, right? This would do a lot for the atmosphere of these maps IMO. Maybe even add in lightning flashes. No big deal if it can't/won't get done though, I realize they have more important issues to worry about.

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