AAR: Colin I vs Hellraiser PBEM mirror game

[hellraiser]

Games resumed:

Game 1 - Colin Axis

Japanese hit like a sledgehammer those poor chinese. China split in two, just trying to delay things.

In North Africa, UK troops, after previously capturing Tobruk, take a break waiting for supply to catch up. Desert RAF grounded due to sandstorms. Bomber in Malta hit Tripoli and harbour down to 0. Italian tank counterattacked a british minor corps and retreated west towards Tripoli.

Bad weather prevented the Kriegsmarine to retaliate last turn - this turn, the RN aided by minor destroyers hunt down the axis ships west of Iceland (1 or 2 subs sunk, cruiser sunk, can't remember if Bismarck went down below as well).

Game 2 - Hellraiser Axis

Japanese kinda suck I always take the longest route when dealing with China - instead of exploiting the northern flank, I go from south and east...eh...the absence of Jap TACs is making it even more difficult but, on the bright side, all available jap marines are bought already so the bonus ones will greatly add to our specops assets.

Germans enjoy quite a wonderful amd serene spring of '41 in Europe. Kriegsmarine stays around home ports, subs are still stuck at lvl 1.

African task force exploring the savanna. Italian task force arrived in Irak, Kuweit under attack - fighter, tac, tank.

Last turn I noticed UK bribed USA so, despite my contempt for diplomatic actions (unless the opponent really sinks chits into it, I don't bother) I was forced to counter the UK chits. All available axis income (that's somewhere around 800 mpps) was invested into diplo-ing USA - bang! USA takes a 14% reduction in readiness at the end of my turn. Mr Churchill, sweet tonguing those yanks ain't gonna work!

[hellraiser]

Game 1 - Colin Axis

RN kills 2xsubs, 1xBB, 1xCA west of Iceland - ASW and carriers win the day

Chinese are useless.

UK around Tobruk - Gibraltar effect kicks in

Game 2 - Hellraiser Axis

Kuwait corps flee in terror, italian claim the sheikh palace.

Japanese kill a corps in the north, ping the central chinese city (capitol i think).

[Colin I]

The Axis naval defeat was a nasty combination of intelligence, ASW, carriers and bad weather :-(

China is my one comfort in both games :-)

[hellraiser]

Game 1 - Colin Axis

British forces make contact with the defenders of Tripoli. Italian tank badly damaged, RAF bomber from Malta keep Tripoli and harbour at 0 supply.

USSR prepares for war! Colin will use mainly the polish border for his attack on the soviets since RO/HU are still neutral - the 'bonus' for killing Franco before ro/hu are axis.

China just having fun, i mean Japanese having fun in China

Game 2 - Hellraiser Axis

Japanese capture Yenan (?) - that fortified village in the north. In the south, Chunking defender reduced to 5. We keep hitting hard that defender to avoid him building entrenchment and to keep his xp low while building some xp for my jap armies - once TACs arrive, it'll be a different story.

Germans continue the buildup towards USSR - all tanks, corps, tacs bought plus enough HQs to take care of the eastern command. 1 or 2 fighters still missing but that's Colin's fault since he made me invest in diplo ^^

Due to a very calm Axis game in Europe - DoWed just the essential minors - USSR readiness is still around 45% and USA somewhere at 20+. The advantage of this cautious approach is the obvious time Germany has to build an enormous army against USSR and starting with '42 to have available troops to employ in different theatres as well. The disadvantage is that if you attack in late '41, you won't be able to fully exploit the power of such army because of mud, rain and snow. But starting with spring '42, Germany is a true monster.

[Colin I]

Game 1 - Colin Axis

Barbarossa is launched, German tanks take Smolensk by July 1941 and take Portugal as a bonus. Hungary and Finland join the Axis. Japan continues to take central China. British keep going in North Africa.

Game 2 - Hellraiser Axis

Japanese are gaining momentum but China still doing OK. Rest is fairly quiet, Germany is indeed a monster. Allies get a few technology hits that raises morale a bit.

[hellraiser]

Game 1 - Colin Axis

Germans advance in Russia, Smolensk taken.

Finland joins Axis but a big russian task force attacks towards Helsinki, kills the HQ and air unit - 3 red tanks adjacent to helsinki. Had i dow-ed finland last turn, hungary and romania would've joined immediately. Unfortunately, despite my caution, Hungary joined and Romania will probably follow. Probably they join if Germany push into the USSR.

In the west, british commandoes liberate Bergen and Brussels. In North Africa, british forces kill the italian tank and make contact with Tripoli defender.

Chinese kill a marine (or army?) near Chuking.

Game 2 - Hellraiser Axis

Germany is still upgrading units on the eastern border - USSR at 50% and something, USA still around 20-25%,

Japanese, using carriers, TAC, 5 star army+some other units occupy chuking - capital moved to langchow. Another chinese army killed in the north, near that fortified village.

[Colin I]

Game 1 - Colin Axis

Germans take Kursk and are close to Moscow. Chinese lose an engineer and have their capital bombed into the stone age.

Game 2 - Hellraiser Axis

Fairly quiet, except Japanese are doing better in China.

__________________

[hellraiser]

Game 1 - Colin Axis

Russia knocks Finland out of the war - nice plunder.

Germans close to Moscow.

UK started to hit Tripoli, corps damaged - gibraltar effect kicks in

RN carrier attacks bomber in Oslo and british lands an army which attacks Oslo; HQ transported to norway as well ; the minor corps that previously liberated benelux appear in norway - german heavy pieces were operated near Belgium last turn.

Japan rolls in China; jap tranny sniffing near Rabaul.

Game 2 - Hellraiser Axis

Germans still upgrading units for the upcoming late barbarossa.

African task force take dar es salaam and mombasa.

[Colin I]

Game 1 - Colin Axis

Germans in Moscow. Belgium retaken but Norway will fall to Allies. Japanese keep finishing Chinese troops though he has counterplay.

Game 2 - Hellraiser Axis

Kind of quiet except his African adventure and China. Hmm, Barbarossa certainly not early.

[hellraiser]

Game 1 - Colin Axis

Norway liberated by british troops.

Tripoli captured by UK; Italian HQ trapped nearby; Axis presence in North Africa eliminated.

USSR DoW and occupy Persia via amphib landing. Germans captured Moscow last turn, russiansdon't dare face the axis units...yet.

China? I think i forgot to move the chinese units

Game 2 - Hellraiser Axis

Germans still building up on the eastern border.

Japanese kill a chinese HQ and occupy a sorry ass city above nanning. USA still around 25%

[Colin I]

Its oh so quiet now in both games, so time for a summary:

Colin Axis

Decent Barbarossa and good progress with Japanese in China but weak North Africa and naval disaster. Hellraiser forgot to move Chinese last turn and it made NO difference - Chinese strategy is really an oxymoron.

Hell Axis

Big build up and excellent expansion into Africa by Axis. China starting to crumble. Axis tsunami expected soon.

[hellraiser]

Game 1 - Colin Axis

Germans occupy Odessa, killing the corps inside. Another red corps killed near Moscow.

Due to railway still free, Russians are able to operate away their land units from Finland.

Commie partisan pop up near Riga and recapture the city.

British troops in north africa kill the Italian HQ stranded near Tripoli - North Africa is free of Axis troops. RAF fighter operating from Benghazi attacks a german bomber in Greece.

China...well, no fun here. They're barely holding, only bad supply for japs keeps them alive.

Game 2 - Hellraiser Axis (late sep '41)

Japanese advance to Langchow, beating up ppl in their way. USA at 29% readiness

USSR at 71% but Axis decide it is high time to take offensive border positions. Actually, I don't have room left to place anymore units in the east

Around 35 axis units deploy on 3 rows on the soviet border in preparation for the mother of all battles.

[Colin I]

Game 1 - Colin Axis

Japan goes large as Germany slows in Russia (bad weather in the autumn). China loses its capital and an HQ unit. Meanwhile Japan takes Hong Kong, Solomons, Philippines, Brunei and various islands including Christmas Island and threatens Malaysia, Burma and Dutch East Indies. No Pearl Harbour though.

Game 2 - Hellraiser Axis

Gosh its quiet. Allies brace, brace, brace.....!

[Colin I]

Game 1 - Colin Axis

Japan runs riot on the land at least - in part from being able to ship troops into a friendly Thailand to advance on Malaysia and Burma. Burma falls. Dutch East Indies will next round. Chinese crumbling very fast indeed. US Cruiser sunk plus some DE Indies vessels taken out (or almost in one case). Germany is quiet but British hit Crete.

Game 2 - Hellraiser Axis

Barbarossa initiated but not much will happen this year. Iraq falls to Axis. Japan still quiet except in China. Russians decide to test their shiny new tanks in Manchuria if the Germans are so late to the fight.

[hellraiser]

Game 1 - Colin Axis

Japanese in process of cleaning China. Multiple aggressions in SE Asia - Burma, Singapore, DEI, Brunei.

Germans rather quiet, bad weather and mud prevents them from doing much in Russia.

During allied turn: UK DoWs and convert Tunisia.

RN initiates a major action in the Baltic Sea - canadian corps lands near Copenhagen and seize the two straits. Russian cruiser and destroyer block both land passages to the Baltic Sea and the RN destroyers, supported by 3 carriers attacks and destroy 3 lvl3 subs. I spotted 4 subs but the surviving one is in koenigsberg port and due to bad weather above koenigsberg, carriers are unable to hit.

USA buys tons of new, shiny toys.

Game 2 - Hellraiser Axis

Bad weather and mud in Russia slow down the germans (which was to be expected once i decided to hit so late). Despite this, Riga (last turn), Minsk and Odessa are taken. Kiew will follow next turn. Finland joins Axis.

Uncle Joe decides Manchuria is a surprisingly nice place and orders his tanks to invade Japan. Jap army (still at str 2) killed but town not captured.

Bad ideea for the allied cause because USA readiness goes down A LOT. USA now at 2% readiness

And russian tanks will be stopped at some point once TACs and fighters arrive from the queue. And if they won;t be stopped, let them take Manchuria, who cares

[Colin I]

Game 1 - Colin Axis

Germany deploys TAC against Allied navy and decides to invest in air launched torpedo systems. Japanese keep on in China, take Malaysia and Dutch East Indies.

Game 2 - Hellraiser Axis

Russian armour keeps coming in Manchuria. This was an experiment - did not know how big a hit this would make. Sometimes I think Hubert has balanced the diplomacy penalties assuming a certain strategy. But its not so easy to stop and Japan is the weak sister in this partnership.

[hellraiser]

Game 1 - Colin Axis

All quiet in Russia, jerry waiting for better weather, reds digging in.

Japan capture the last city in central China.

RN retreats from the Baltic, mission accomplished.

Game 2 - Hellraiser Axis

Russian lvl 4 tank kill a corp in Tsitsihar (?). Japanese forces kill corps and army, pushing to the last chinese capital.

USA at 11% - post pear harbour historical date, USA readiness increase is accelerated i think.

@Colin - IMO, hitting Manchuria makes a lot of sense if russia can spare the task force needed but only in tandem with an US assault on Japanese home isles. The goal should be to knock Japan out of the war. Lvl 4 or 5 tanks and the loss of 3-4 cities don't scare the samurais Limited success in the first phase is to be expected for your russians since usually (unless japan wants to hit the ussr) Manchuria is lightly garrisoned by the axis player.

I suspected a diplo penalty for dowing japan but i had no ideea it would be 20% or so. It's a lot and the consequences will become clear past 1943 I think.

But nonetheless I kinda deserved that - I didn't care to reinforce that 2 str army so I must pay the price:P

[Colin I]

Game 1 - Colin Axis

Indeed, quiet in the West. In the East Japan continues, mopping up in China, advancing in New Guinea and towards India.

Game 2 - Hellraiser Axis

Well, Russians cannot do much except wait and I knew Barbarossa would be late and hard. The classic move would have been Finland as you did, or Middle East, but wanted to experiment. I'm not 100% sure it has no utility for reasons I'll explain later (if my idea works) but agree penalty to US makes it not worth it normally.

[hellraiser]

Game 1 - Colin Axis

Partisans pop up all over russia

UK DoWs and conquer Syria - Iraq says something ugly, i don't quite understand it - maybe they'll explain it in more detail once i enter Baghdad

Russia is building things like crazy.

China rebuilds whatever cheap units she has in order to delay the japs.

Game 2 - Hellraiser Axis

Super snow in Russia.

Kiew conquered, Smolensk army damaged down to 2 str.

German and minor corps steal the two southern russian mines - Urals event triggered ofc.

Germany DoW and capture Tunisia, italians at work

In a surprise move, axis iraqi corps lands in Karachi, damaging an aussie cruiser in port.

Japan took defensive positions in Manchuria, bracing themselves for a possible russian attack.

Lucky strike with diplo - super hit on USA 14% - US readiness at 8% - I wonder if they're ever gonna enter this war

[Colin I]

Game 1 - Colin Axis

Russians pause in Manchuria - he operated a lot of units away from China last turn so time for some air recon. Russians hang on in West.

Game 2 - Hellraiser Axis

Snow halts play in Russia. Japan piles towards India and keeps hitting China plus a few more Islands.

[hellraiser]

Game 1 - Colin Axis

Allies land and capture Palermo.

RN blockade some french ports in order to reduce them.

Russia aquires lvl 2 antitank weapons finally - upgrades ordered.

Russian cruiser in Baltic pings a LW TAC near Koenigsberg. Partisan hits the same TAC.

Game 2 - Hellraiser Axis

Japanese decided to defend the approach to Seoul in case the russians are so bold to come that way. Carriers and TAC + marine kill the Vladivostock defender.

Paratroopers capture Ulan Ude, intercepting the railway - those nice tanks in Manchuria can't be operated west for a while.

Diplo success again - USA takes a 12% hit on readiness

[Colin I]

Just to ask Bill, Hubert, etc. We have strange situation with abnormally low US readiness into early 1942. Does anyone know if it is inevitable US will join war or if can be kept out if Japan does not act aggressively. If latter, there is a serious problem with game balance, but if former then I feel Axis:US diplomacy is legitimate though maybe Allies should start with extra chit in USA to simulate relationship and make Axis success here harder. Hellraiser wants to ban majors diplomacy but I feel this is a nice feature and realistic but may require balancing.

BTW @Hellraiser - Allies have had 2 to 3 chits to US at all times.

Colin Axis: Japan does well into India but Germany has too many problems though strong armour/TAC. The loss of my German fleet has knocked on to vulnerability in Norway/Baltic which will make it hard to concentrate TAC on Russia even though I hold Moscow. Against a player of Hellraiser's calibre this is killer.

Hell Axis: USSR retreats from Japan due to Japanese paradrop. This is the game US readiness is VERY low.

[hellraiser]

Game 1 - Colin Axis

UK DoWs and capture Algeria and Iraq. Algerian capitol was knocked out by army and tank and the city itself taken by the minor corps coming form Palermo (LW fighter appeared nearby Palermo).

Russian partisans keep popping up, disrupting german rear.

Indian place 2 corps coming from the queue near the front lines, to buy time.

US fighters ping a japanese transport near Luganville.

RN cruisers ping minor axis corps in Jutland.

Game 2 - Hellraiser Axis

The little russian manchurian adventure came to an abrupt end when Uncle Joe noticed the japanese paratroopers cutting his eastern task force off. Tsitsihar recaptured by Sushi-san corps. Only Manchouli remains in communist hands. Vladivostok occupied by jap marine unit.

Massive german and italian landings in India - Colin tied up some units in Manchuria so India became the objective of the other axis ally

At the end of my turn, USA took another 12% diplo hit -> 6% readiness now

Now to the 'majors diplo' question.

I only invested in diplomacy because Colin did it first and sweet tongued the USA. I had a maximum of 7 chits in USA (5 german and 2 jap). TBH, I don;t really like the diplo aspect, but it is in the game and must be dealt with.

I think limiting (or even banning) diplo on majors would be in the interest of the weaker side i.e. the allies. If both germany and japan invest heavily in diplomacy it can have dire consequences as in this game (a total of -38% US readiness), despite some counter diplomacy by the UK. The allies can counteract effectively only after USSR is in the game and can oppose a max of 10 chits to Axis' potential 10 chits - which Colin should have probably done if he wanted USA faster in the game.

Why Axis are favoured - Allies are pretty poor in this game and if the axis player forces UK and Russia to counteract diplomatically i.e. wasting mpps on chits, they become even poorer. Axis lose mpps to chits as well but they can overcome it more easily since their mpp base is excellent.

@Colin - I think USA readiness increase faster post Pearl Harbour historical date. I am not 100% sure, I've read the script files some months ago. But if Axis diplo USA and the allies do not counteract diplomatically, it is entirely possible to keep USA out of the war for the larger part of it.

[Bill101]

Hi Colin

Presuming that you're playing the default World at War campaign (i.e. with no modifications at all) then there is a 15% chance of a 1-2% rise in US readiness per turn from January 1941.

Once the USSR has entered the war, the USA will have a one time increase in its readiness of 5-7%.

Then there's the US oil embargo against Japan which starts in August 1941, increasing US readiness by 1-2% a turn, ramping up to 4-6% by December 1941.

So, a canny (or lucky) Axis player can attempt to delay US intervention, but it should happen at some point. Hellraiser certainly seems to be showing what can be done here!

Bill

[Colin I]

I would suggest a house rule Max 3 Allied Chips vs Majors and Max 1 Axis. The reasoning is as follows: Whilst the diplomatic game is limited I do not want to kill it. The problem with majors is their readiness only matters early - unlike minors which Allies can influence hugely once USA enters. So, as Hellraiser says, Axis MPP and Chits count more here. Reason for keeping this potential open is, if lucky, Allies can throw Axis calculations off just before Pearl Harbour or Barbarossa which is kind of fun. But 3 chits is quite an effort for the UK. Axis should be allowed some investment so Allies cannot calculate too precisely. Also, both sides did try and influence the majors so something should be possible.

But I hope Hubert reads this and patches - this is a bigger loop hole than I realized. Long term, diplomacy needs a better system.