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Any clues about Spotting?


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I must have played a ton of QBs so far and I'm having mostly great fun. It's amazing but I think this is the game we all dreamed about when we were playing with miniature tanks some decades ago ;)

But sometimes I get the feeling that spotting is bit too random. I'm not sure if even C2 works here. I dont have same files (I play online RT) but I've seen completely random things in spotting. Especially tank vs tank.

What are the most important factors say for tanks? Obvious things that I get so far:

1. Buttoned/unbottoned really seems to make a difference

2. Unit experience/status. Big differnce in crack vs regular/green etc.

3. Cover/ground, trees/bocage really help.

4. Unit facing/ Cover arc

Things I dont get:

C2. I havent seen a big difference in spotting ability when elements of the same unit are side by side. I had a panther next to a forward observer under the same battalion but it spotted the target much later than a stug of a different unit. Same for tank platoons. It takes quite a lot of time to pass the info to the point that doesnt really add to the ability of a pair of eyes.

Does this mean that C2 information is not passed imediately but mostly helps on providing units with ? of enemy positions that can help in the "memory map" of a unit? I'm guessing the idea I had with C2 that units in chain of command are in a ala CMx1 "mini borg spotting status" is wrong?

Lastly, I had an hmg unit cleary spotting a sherman on the other side of a bocage. I drove a unbuttoned panther next to the HMG it but despite the clear blue LOS to the spot he couldnt see the sherman for over a minute. The hmg and the panther were in different companies. Does this mean that an infantry man next to an ubuttoned tank cannot inform the tank commander about the clear threat infront of him because they belong to different formations?

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Information is shared force wide, but far less effectively than in CM:SF. The more "C2 links" the information has to pass through, the slower it goes. 1 minute is actually quite fast because you, the player, are assuming that all the two units are doing is trying to communicate with each other about a specific target. In real life there are many, many other things a unit is doing within 60 seconds.

The most effective sharing of information is within a Platoon in good communications with their HQ.

Steve

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Thanks for the input Steve! Sometimes the game feels so real with 1:1 that you expect that everything you see is what is actually and only happening. So I thought a inf team and a tank commander could have a short chat while next to each other :)

Tank spotting is one of the most critical aspects of success/failure in this game and I'm still trying to figure out if there is a golden rule with C2. I'm used to CMx1 where sneaking on a buttoned tank guaranteed first shot. Doesnt seem to be the case in CMBN. I was playing a H2H match last night and had a panther buttoned and immobilized in clear sight in the mid of a town street. It was the commander of a 2panthers plt, the other one was on a distant part of the map and shared no info. My opponent sneaked up a M-10 towards it, behind dense foliage and unbuttoned. 300-400m, Panther got the first shot. Despite the M-10 having a link with inf spotting the tank, (which have been imobile for 10-15mins) it couldnt spot the panther fast enough. Second M-10 with hunt order creeps over a small crest to get a shot on it. Same C2 info sharing with HQ. Nope. Fully exposed panther gets first shot again against a low profile M-10 hull down behind rise.

Some clues. Panther was facing towards the M-10s and it was stationary while these were moving towards it (still slowly). So tank facing and movement seem to beat info sharing? But I would consider a buttoned tank with no C2 link rather blind, except this is a panther good optics issue..I won the battle but I wasnt really happy with my opponent taking every measure to spot first and getting no reward at the end. I just left an immobile, buttoned up panther with no cover arc in the mid of a town street that took care of everything while I wasnt even looking :)

I'll do some more testing but so far I've seen that anything can happen with spotting. Would be interesting to read what other ppl experiences are.

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I've had some 'wow' moments with AI spotting as I extensively play..err test WEGO mixed force attacks vs mech AI defenses, and most of these to my detriment with AT guns ravaging my infantry backed tankers.

I will detail one such amazing moment, so amazing that I saved the replay.

So I've set up my attacking force, put some Shermans on a farm road that is surround by trees. I press the red button to let the first turn pass with no movement on my part. By the end of that first minute, one of my just placed and painted tanks is destroyed.

It seems that over 500m away, over 2 low bocage lines and through a forest of sorts, a regular crewed AT gun could just barely make out my tank (to be fair I found out afterwards that tank had reciprocal LOS) and shoot it twice in the first minute.

I cried out "Spawn killer!" and rage quit...after saving the turn, of course.

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Movement has a huge impact on spotting/being spotted, as does firing. I'll point back to your old thread Ali:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=93303&highlight=Normandy&page=3

That thread helped me start to grasp the core concepts, of C2 and it's relationship with spotting. I still don't have those concepts masterd, especially transitioning from SF to Normandy.

But it sounds like movement to gain a LOS position, individually, against an enemy tank staring at said position is what got you nailed. Had you used smoke to cover your approach so you could get LOS for both destroyers at the same time would have given you the best chance for at least being able to return fire at a minimum.

Also you might have had time for C2 to work for you, giving you a ? And the time nessisary to translate that into a spotted unit.

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Yeah, there are so many factors at work there are no easy answers. Each crew member of a tank spots, but only according to whatever the real world guy could see. If there's no view to the rear, he can't spot to the rear. If a guy can't see to the right, he can't spot to the right. And of course this is done by number of degrees of view, so it is pretty exact. There's also a difference between things like vision blocks, periscopes, etc.

Buttoned up tanks can't get information from anything except their radio. Moving vehicles have all kinds of problems, including not being able to get information from infantry even when unbuttoned.

The best advice is to keep your guys together and in Command, then proceed slow enough that they have a chance to communicate with each other.

Steve

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Movement has a huge impact on spotting/being spotted, as does firing. I'll point back to your old thread Ali:

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=93303&highlight=Normandy&page=3

That thread helped me start to grasp the core concepts, of C2 and it's relationship with spotting. I still don't have those concepts masterd, especially transitioning from SF to Normandy.

But it sounds like movement to gain a LOS position, individually, against an enemy tank staring at said position is what got you nailed. Had you used smoke to cover your approach so you could get LOS for both destroyers at the same time would have given you the best chance for at least being able to return fire at a minimum.

Also you might have had time for C2 to work for you, giving you a ? And the time nessisary to translate that into a spotted unit.

Thanks! I had forgoteen about this, a lot of useful info on C2 in that thread really. Infantry is a bit easier to understand, seems like info is shared instantly within a platoon. Tanks need some more testing..

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