Sergei Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 I predict, that when the Bulge module comes out and they show GIs running around in white sheets I didn't know there were KKK Battalions in the Bulge. The more you know! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Isn't that a very young Michelle Malkin in the photo? *ahem*... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 *ahem*... Sir, I refer you to post #77 in this same thread for further illumination. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce K Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 A standing Google search notice directed me to your forum. If there is interest in learning of the participation of an African-American unit in actual combat at Normandy I can tell you about one in particular: The Army's 452nd Anti-Aircraft Artillery Battalion (mobile) colored[sic]. 3 of 4 batteries of the 452nd landed at Omaha Beach on D-Day +21 and, unlike all other similar segregated units were not broken down into transport units for the Redball Express. My Dad, a first lieutenant (and later a captain) was in command of battery D of the 452nd. He was white, as were all the unit's field officers, and the enlisted men were all black. He was with the 452nd when it was created in 1942, when it sailed to Great Britain in 1943 all the way through to being part of occupation forces in Berlin in 1945. The 452nd fought in every northern ETO campaigns including Normandy, Rhine and the Battle of the Bulge in the Ardennes Forest. The 452nd, Along with four or five other white AAA battalions, accompanied Patton as he raced towards Bastogne at the BOTB commencement. The 452nd was also in place in defense of Patton's crossing into Germany where Patton famously pissed into the Rhine from the (? can't recall) Bridge. In a desperate attempt to stop the Allies from crossing the Siegfried Line, the Nazi's sent 250 of their nearly decimated Luftwaffe. The 452nd downed 5 or possibly 6 enemy aircraft. I cant speak to individual campaigns but the 452nd AAA obtained the 2nd highest number of confirmed enemy aircraft kills in the ETO, 78 1/2, as well as about 20 partially confirmed kills. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnergoz Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Thank you Bruce K and welcome to the forum. The original poster was looking for possible scenarios for an all black unit for this game. Unfortunately, the game does not at present model AA assets so even though your Dad's unit was there it is not one that can be represented until later modules are released that do have the various AA guns. I take it that your Dad's unit, being mobile, was truck drawn quad .50's and 40mm guns? Or did it have the M15 and M16 half tracks? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailApe Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 These things always morph into an indictment of US racial mores sooner or later Nidan1 – as a Non-USians, permit me to say that I don’t see it that way, although I can understand how some can feel uncomfortable with questionable deeds done in the past in by their forbears. Yes distasteful things were done then, but the question to ask yourself is have we moved on? And in the US’s case I think the answer would be yes – very much so. So spare me the remorse, I’m busy - I’ve got the misdeeds of the British Empire to answer for. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie_Oz Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 So spare me the remorse, I’m busy - I’ve got the misdeeds of the British Empire to answer for. YEH ! In fact now that you mention it it is ALL your fault. We are just misguided children who were neglected by our motherland. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailApe Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 YEH ! In fact now that you mention it it is ALL your fault. We are just misguided children who were neglected by our motherland Well, I can certainly understand that, I would blame that mess on somebody else if I could. I'm sure other parts of the Empire would get away with that but not the US and not Oz. The US are like the teenage who stormed out of the family home and set up in their own, and Oz - well you lot didn't storm out, you were THROWN out. So don't play the 'neglected child' card over here mate. Anyway, I actually think I know who to blame for EVERYTHING that's bad that has ever been done by the Anglo-Scottish-Irish-Cymric tribe (and their associates ). The Swedes, Danes and Norwegians are the perps here chaps. Think about it. When did the Brits start getting itchy feet and thinking that invading other countries were a pretty neat idea? The Normans. After that that there was no stopping us. Abba music and pickled herrings on rye bread are served on the road to hell mate. Believe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie_Oz Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 The Normans. ummm weren't the Normans French ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Springelkamp Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 But only after the Normans learned some building techniques in France they were ready to go for world domination. Normans became more of a kind of Super-Franks. That is a clear sign for who are truly to blame. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Springelkamp Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 ummm weren't the Normans French ? No, they were Norman, but they mingled enthusiasticly with the Frankish rulers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailApe Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 This is getting even better. So the French are to blame. I'm glad about that, I thought I'd be facing an uphill battle to blame it all on the nations that brought us Abba. The French eh? No problem selling that particular little doggie. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie_Oz Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Yeh +1 for blaming the French, I mean they even supported the USAlian hissy fit, tried to pinch Canada and blew up the Kiwi's. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinty Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Yeh +1 for blaming the French, I mean they even supported the USAlian hissy fit, tried to pinch Canada and blew up the Kiwi's. And notice how much nastier things got when the French threw their own hissy fit! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Springelkamp Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 When talking about 'Franks', they are not just French, but Germans as well, so you can also blame the Germans. Does it ever get better? (although, to be fair, the roots of the Franks are in the Netherlands). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie_Oz Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 (although, to be fair, the roots of the Franks are in the Netherlands). I thought the roots of the Franks were the Normans? I'm getting confused 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Thought better of it. I like the French, they helped us kick the Brits out of the American colonies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie_Oz Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 shhhhhh, we are bashing the French now 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Springelkamp Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I thought the roots of the Franks were the Normans? I'm getting confused Yes, very confused. The origin of the Franks is not a tribe, but a political movement among many different Germanic groups to gather at the borders of the Roman Empire and to try to immigrate there, by any means. Depending on particular moments that implied taking up service in the Roman Army, raiding the border, or infiltrate and start a farm. Then came the phase where local important Franks started mingling with Roman nobles, and generally working their way up into the local Roman hierarchy. When the Roman Armies were retreated towards Italy to defend against the Goths and other invaders, the Franks took over Roman Rule in the South of the Netherlands and Northern France. After the further collapse, they expanded South into France. A few times they were contenders for the Roman Emperor. As most of the hard fighting with the invasion forces were taking place more to the South, the Southern Netherlands maintained a relatively well developed economy, giving the Franks a head start in the power struggle of the Early Middle Ages. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I was under the impression that the Normans were actually the descendants of the Vikings too. Norman, meaning North-Man. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie_Oz Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 -sigh- perhaps you should look into the meaning given to root in Australia 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrailApe Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Erik, that actually is very interesting. How does that apply to the cute little blond in Abba? Or have I totally missed the point? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I was under the impression that the Normans were actually the descendants of the Vikings too. Norman, meaning North-Man. Yeah that's cool the Vikings were quite xenophobic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie_Oz Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 How does that apply to the cute little blond in Abba? You know she is like 900 by now ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Springelkamp Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 I was under the impression that the Normans were actually the descendants of the Vikings too. Norman, meaning North-Man. That is correct. But they entered the picture long after the Franks had established their power base in France, and shortly after they had conquered Germany. Because the Frankish Empire couldn't defend its coastal area against the Normans (indeed North-Men, Noormannen in Dutch), they appointed Norman chiefs as Count in those same coastal area, to fend off other Normans. Normandy in North Western France was one such county, Frisia in the Northern Netherlands was another such county (the background of Beowulf, which takes place partly in Frisia - that contained Holland at the time). A Frisian noble killed his Norman ruler and became the first Count of Holland (although that name was coined only a century later). But the Norman Counts of Normandy were politically more successful and even became Dukes in the name of the Frankish Empire, and then Kings of England of course. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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