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Wow, Panther destroyed Stuart and Sherman in one hit!


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Yep, AP shell hits the upper right hull of the Stuart, then passes through the bocage/hedgerows unobstructed to take out the Sherman via a upper right hull penetration. Seems a little unrealistic to me in that alone. Bearing in mind how hard it is to destroy bocage with HE alone, I'm amazed at how AP rounds seem completely unaffected by it.

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I did some tests tonight, lining up halftracks and Shermans side by side. The vehicles were placed 12 deep, spanning a distance of about 100 meters or so (basically, one vehicle per action spot sized area). I then had Panthers shoot from a distance of about 130 meters away from the closest vehicle. Shots penetrated the first Sherman and killed the second often, but not always. Panthers shooting at halftracks killed up to 7 vehicles with a single shot (this test was more difficult, because you can't force halftrack drivers to bail out, so they start moving before the tanks fire).

A single shot penetrating 7 halftracks seems pretty far fetched to me, but knowing that it only goes through a single tank at most (kills a second, but doesn't pass clean through) is acceptable, I think. Overblown from what we'd see in the real world, for sure... but still acceptable. At this point, I think some of the other wonky stuff about targeting is much lower hanging fruit that will have a greater impact on realism and gameplay (most notably, shooting through dead vehicles).

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Concur, Clark, the dead vehicles issue takes precedence for me too.

The thing with these multiple kills with one shot scenarios is that, while they may be technically and theoretically possible (and likely did happen now and again) the actual numbers of recorded instances of it in the WW2 time frame seem pretty sparse. That is either because no one noticed at the time, or it did not really happen often. Given the chaos of the battlefield, I suspect both are true and so there may have been instances of such events that were not documented for various reasons (no survivors, etc.)

One possibility is that the game may encourage a bit of battlefield foreshortening, for lack of a better term...we as players (and maybe designers) tend to compress geography somewhat and try to cram too much action into too small a space. Units bunch up and the artificial constraints of action spaces, etc impinge upon how units behave in our simulated world. Our game world is not as fine-grained as the real world, in other words, which may allow more of these instances an opportunity to occur than they might have happened IRL.

Don't know that for a fact, just throwing the possibility out there to ponder.

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What dead vehicles issue?
The fact that they do not block line of sight or line of fire. Once a vehicle is dead, you can see it on the battlefield, but it's not actually there as far as vehicle-to-vehicle combat is concerned. If I have two tanks, one behind the other, then you kill the first one - your tank and my remaining tank can shoot at each other as though the dead tank is not there at all. Rounds will pass right through it. The only exception to this is if the dead tank is brewed up, in which case the smoke blocks line of sight.
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The fact that they do not block line of sight or line of fire. Once a vehicle is dead, you can see it on the battlefield, but it's not actually there as far as vehicle-to-vehicle combat is concerned. If I have two tanks, one behind the other, then you kill the first one - your tank and my remaining tank can shoot at each other as though the dead tank is not there at all. Rounds will pass right through it. The only exception to this is if the dead tank is brewed up, in which case the smoke blocks line of sight.

This is intended and will not be changed. Do a search for the many explanations.

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This is intended and will not be changed. Do a search for the many explanations.
We realize it was intended and designed this way. That doesn't mean it isn't a problem, and it doesn't make it the correct decision. ANYTHING can be changed if enough people demand it. I've yet to hear a single person (other than Steve) say that they think this solution is a good one, so I think BFC would be wise to at least consider changing the behavior.

Treat dead vehicles as though they block LOS, whether they are smoking or not. No more shooting through dead vehicles, and it also solves the issue of the TacAI shooting at live vehicles and only hitting dead ones that are in the way. There may be some problems that arise from this solution, but in my opinion those problems would likely be less controversial and damaging to gameplay than the way it currently works.

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This is intended and will not be changed. Do a search for the many explanations.

You know, I have done a search over 350 thread replies by battlefront.com (Steve) to a query for "LOS + destroyed + tanks" and I was not able to find the information. Can you recall which thread the best BFC reply to this question was in? Thanks.

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Thank you Vanir and I now understand akd's rather laconic reply. Knowing Steve from his postings here, I'd think there's a snowball's chance in hell of this ever getting looked into again since they've made up their minds on it, no matter what some of us may think. My solution would be for dead tanks to become neutral objects with no LOS/LOF through them but apparently that is not something they can easily program.

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