Picking up a Thompson with buddy aid

[womble]

No kidding, Womble - I'm mired in the Courage & Fortitude campaign, and am embarrassed to admit that, after 4 or 5 battles (due to my mis-management) I have a couple of solo or semi-solo squad leaders on the field. But I keep them slightly behind other squads, then use their SMG's at short range to good effect when appropriate. They do rail through the ammo when pressed, tho - where's the nearest jeep?

That's what I'm playing through, too. The nearest Jeep is always two fields further back than you can spare the time to run your leader squads... Stoopid Hedgehogs. I'm surprised you've had teams stripped to just leaders, though. My first 6 casualties in the current mission were 2 leaders, 2 BAR gunners and 2 soldiers. :-/

[Hpt. Lisse]

Didn't say I was any good... seriously, the Warrior setting may have been a little adventurous for my first outing (old-school CMx1 player). Jerry's had a couple of lucky mortar strikes, too. Of course, the solo Sarges were part of the 'core' company, so they keep coming back. I think after this battle we'll get re-supplied, but who knows.

The first couple of battles had a steep learning curve, but I'm doing better now... <gets fragged by his own troops>

[womble]

Oh, I wasn't passing comment on competence, only on the vagaries of war: you have sergeants with no troops, I have troops with no sergeants, or BARs half the time.

Seems to me the BARs are always 'recovered' after a battle; I start off with one per squad, mostly, even if there's only 2 guys left in the squad. But the new 'squad leader' keeps his Garand, rather than getting a Tommy gun.

[Aldaros]

It's asking a lot of the AI to treat the weapons like golf clubs...."Hmmm, I have to take a 480 yard shot, I'll grab that nice scoped '03A3 Springfield. When I move to the hedgerow I expect engagements to be at putting distance, so I'll swap it for that Thompson and a bag of mags..."

That's not at all what I'm asking, so I'll try to explain my reasoning again. What I want is the AI to treat a squad's weapons like a set of golf clubs. I want the AI to think, we've got a bunch of rifles, but no Thompsons now, so maybe I should trade my rifle for this. That way, my squad will have a better chance of surviving anything we might run into. That is, of course, the reason the squad leader had one in the first place; it doesn't make sense for everyone to have an SMG, but it's very useful for one or two people to have one. And more importantly, this is exactly what the AI already does with machine guns, BARs, and sniper rifles. All I want is for the Thompson to be treated like the specialized weapon it is.

Also, since we are thinking out loud about weapons scrounged from former owners, why are we assuming that they are in operable condition when found? If the late Pvt. Pixel was done in by a close artillery strike or machinegun fire while he was moving out at high port arms, his issue weapon may need some attention from the armorer before it's usable again.

I'm not assuming that weapons are always functional. In fact, I've recently had several cases where BARs and M1919A6s weren't picked up by the buddy aid soldiers, presumably because they were broken. What I'm assuming is that, if the vast majority of large, heavy weapons are usable after their owner is WIA/KIA, that at least a couple Thompsons should actually survive intact as well. I've done buddy aid on at least 20-30 SMG users by this point, so clearly this isn't an issue of having bad luck with weapon damage.

[Aldaros]

Seems to me the BARs are always 'recovered' after a battle; I start off with one per squad, mostly, even if there's only 2 guys left in the squad. But the new 'squad leader' keeps his Garand, rather than getting a Tommy gun.

Huh, I've never seen weapons recovered after the battle. My experience has always been that, if someone doesn't pick it up via buddy aid before the battle ends, it's gone. Even if the enemy completely surrendered, and the dead BAR guy was lying right next to his squadmates.

I've also had two cases where I lost machine guns between battles, after retrieving them via buddy aid. In the Road to Montebourg campaign, I had two M1919A6 teams where the team leader was carrying the machine gun at the end of the battle. When I got those soldiers back two missions later, both teams had lost their machine guns; the leaders had reverted to M1 Garands.

[JonS]

That is, of course, the reason the squad leader had one in the first place

That is not, of course, the reason squad leaders and platoon commanders get automatic weapons. Squad leaders and platoon commanders aren't really supposed to get involved in the firefight. They are supposed to be, you know, commanding. SMGs tend to be smaller, lighter, and handier than rifles, meaning that they don't get in the way as much when commanders are carrying out their primary role. Small, light, and handy is also the reason that drivers and vehicle crews have a high proportion of SMGs, pistols, and carbines.

[Aldaros]

That is not, of course, the reason squad leaders and platoon commanders get automatic weapons. Squad leaders and platoon commanders aren't really supposed to get involved in the firefight. They are supposed to be, you know, commanding. SMGs tend to be smaller, lighter, and handier than rifles, meaning that they don't get in the way as much when commanders are carrying out their primary role. Small, light, and handy is also the reason that drivers and vehicle crews have a high proportion of SMGs, pistols, and carbines.

Then why not just issue all those squad leaders carbines? A Thompson cost, what, four times what an M1 carbine cost? Clearly, there must be some reason for giving someone a short range, automatic weapon.

Furthermore, wouldn't squad leaders have SMGs specifically because they would be most likely to make good use of them? If a squad is charging/assaulting a position (which, as I understand it, is the most useful situation for an SMG), wouldn't the squad leader be up front leading the charge, instead of following the rest of the squad? I'll agree that officers really shouldn't be shooting much, but they aren't the ones carrying (and losing) Thompsons in CMBN anyway.

[JonS]

Clearly, there must be some reason for giving someone a short range, automatic weapon.

Clearly. To encourage them to do their jobs, mayhap?

Furthermore, wouldn't squad leaders have SMGs specifically because they would be most likely to make good use of them? If a squad is charging/assaulting a position, wouldn't the squad leader be up front leading the charge, instead of following the rest of the squad?

So many questions.

[womble]

Clearly. To encourage them to do their jobs, mayhap?

Would a pistol not be an even greater incentive to keep their head down and study their maps, perchance?

So many questions.

Good ones, to my eye. Got any answers?

If your assertion is true, wrt squad sergeants (officers and crew, you're dead right), there needs to be some fixing in the code for how weapons get used. And probably some fixing to stop us gamey bastidges using our squad leaders in assault teams (oo, like not putting the sergeant into the team when you split off an assault team) because they're really very effective indeed.

Edit: And it's relatively commonplace for a squad crunchie to be carrying two weapons: Rifle plus AT Rocket; Rifle plus Rifle-with-ATG-adaptor and grenades. It's not a great stretch of the imagination to expect a troops to grab sarge's trench sweeper and a couple of clips and sling it til the action gets hot and close. Don't think I've seen that happen either though.

[Magpie_Oz]

IRL SMG's were given to Squad leaders/officers/Radio Ops etc mainly to be a self defence weapon. Generally anyone who's job was something other than actually shooting at the enemy.

If you needed SMG's for assault then the other squad members carried them, Lead scout in the Jungle in the Aussie army carried an Owen gun for example.

[costard]

Also handy for encouraging a mutinous or unwilling squad - who has the firepower here, eh?

[Magpie_Oz]

I was never taught to shoot my men, I mean they did out number me somewhat.