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June 6, 1944


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A toast to all allied forces that participated, may the fallen rest in peace.

Here here i was at work this am and i mentioned it and nobody even knew. Depressing really.

It really is a shame that many younger people have no clue about June 6th or for that matter even WWII. I asked my step-daughter (she will be a senor this upcoming year) about what she learned about WWII in her History Class. Her quote was; "It was in the 1940's and a lot of people died" I asked if she learned anything else about it... nahh.... Think I will make her watch 10 episodes of Band of Brothers today with the surround sound cranked up...

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Let us don't forget the German soldiers that died that day and do there very best to make that day worth several great computer games, if nothing else...

Seriously, they were great soldiers, too, with the unlucky fate to fight for the 'other' side.

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Let us don't forget the German soldiers that died that day and do there very best to make that day worth several great computer games, if nothing else...

Seriously, they were great soldiers, too, with the unlucky fate to fight for the 'other' side.

The German soldiers in my mind are worth as much remembrance as anyone else. Particularly on the Eastern Front their story drives home the dangers of what can happen when government runs amok. One of my biggest peeves in the world is when people refer to wehrmacht soldiers as "Nazis", as if Hans from Munich or had any say in the matter. I think that's one of the reasons I study the ostfront so much, apart from being the largest war in history it really is a case study of two evil governments fighting each other to the death.

Anyway, no matter which perspective you see it from it's all one of history's great tragedies. D-Day is worth remembering, a lot of people from my country (U.S.) and other Allied nations were killed in Normandy.

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The German soldiers in my mind are worth as much remembrance as anyone else. Particularly on the Eastern Front their story drives home the dangers of what can happen when government runs amok. One of my biggest peeves in the world is when people refer to wehrmacht soldiers as "Nazis", as if Hans from Munich or had any say in the matter. I think that's one of the reasons I study the ostfront so much, apart from being the largest war in history it really is a case study of two evil governments fighting each other to the death.

Here here ... And if we could only collectively learn from that maybe there is a chance that something similar won't have to be repeated.

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The German soldiers in my mind are worth as much remembrance as anyone else. Particularly on the Eastern Front their story drives home the dangers of what can happen when government runs amok. One of my biggest peeves in the world is when people refer to wehrmacht soldiers as "Nazis", as if Hans from Munich or had any say in the matter. I think that's one of the reasons I study the ostfront so much, apart from being the largest war in history it really is a case study of two evil governments fighting each other to the death.

Anyway, no matter which perspective you see it from it's all one of history's great tragedies. D-Day is worth remembering, a lot of people from my country (U.S.) and other Allied nations were killed in Normandy.

I respectfully disagree, at least in terms of remembering German soldiers in the same esteem as Allied ones. I do feel bad that German soldiers fought and lost comrades for a cause that in hindsight turned out to be without honor or morality. However given the tens of thousands of Germans who were rewarded with death or time in a concentration camp for refusing to go along with the Nazi's (ie Sophie Scholl, Konrad Adenauer), I find it hard to hold the men who fought for the Nazi's in the same esteem as those who fought against them, be them men of the allied nations or German resistors.

I have no doubt where I would stand if put in a similar situation, after thinking about it quite hard I do not think I would have the moral courage to stand up against an evil government widely accepted by my country. That is what makes me respect those Germans who did resist so much, because I know I probably would be unable to do so if put in the same situation. Those who went along with the show don't score well (regardless if they were really nazi's or not), even if I probably would have been one of them in similar circumstances.

I'd go on but this thread is not about Nazi ideology and its acceptance to the German people (even if I have a strong view on the subject), so I do not want to hijack the thread about D-day. This rationale is however for why I will pay my respect to Allied soldiers of D-day, and probably even more respect for German resistors, but I will not give similar respect to the German soldiers. I do pass on my sympathy for those Germans who suffered and lost comrades or loved ones on this day, quite an unfair situation many of them found themselves in. Still I personally feel it demeans the sacrifice of those Germans who had the courage (and who often paid the ultimate price) to resist Hitler by commending those Germans who went along with the Nazi's (maybe not their crimes but still "fought for their country"). That's my opinion anyways.

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Still I personally feel it demeans the sacrifice of those Germans who had the courage (and who often paid the ultimate price) to resist Hitler by commending those Germans who went along with the Nazi's (maybe not their crimes but still "fought for their country"). That's my opinion anyways.

It's pretty pointless to argue about who of the front soldiers was morally superior. Were they all comparable to Jesus at a personal level? Certainly not, on any side - Jesus was a horrend to all generals. Did some commit serious crimes? Certainly, on both sides, and some units and some leaders were in particular responsible for horrible deeds.

But I find it wrong to simplify the WW2 and everything in it to a one-dimensional battle between good and evil. The US, British, Canadian, Polish, French and other Allied soldiers who died in Normandy on 6th June 1944 died for their countries, but they also died for Josif Stalin who was just as brutal as any of the Nazis, but who happened to be in war against Germany at the right time. Meanwhile, democratic Finland, which Stalin invaded without provocation in 1939, had taken her chances of taking back the lost territories in 1941, but the western Allies gave their pledge to this land grab, just like they let Stalin occupy Czechoslovakia later.

All I'm saying is, it's not as simple as what you think. People fought in the war, some honourably, some disgraced themselves. But when we are judging them as men, it shouldn't matter if they were fighting for a 'good' cause. I refuse to accept that my ancestors were evil just because they were Finnish patriots, which seems to be your point. Meanwhile Red Army soldiers, even the commissars executing their own men, would get a free pass? Or the US and other Allied soldiers who wilfully ignored Stalin's crimes while they were assisting him?

A recruit doesn't have a say on what their government is doing. They likely don't even understand all of its implications. And it can't be understood because historians argue about such matters even today. But what they can do is act humanely, be responsible of their own acts. War and humanity can be self-contradicting terms, so it's vague what that actually should mean. But surely, knowingly murdering people who are at your mercy is evil. If we take the acceptance of that to mean that someone is a good man, then we can say that a good man dying for a good cause is not an inch higher than a good man dying for a bad cause.

On the other hand, at the political level the issue is different. I think we can all be grateful that the invasion on that day succeeded, as otherwise the fall of Nazism would have taken many more human lives. But mind me if I'm grateful that my country resisted a foreign occupation that same year...

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Many years ago I was fortunate to visit the area. I walked the beach and imagined the Germans spraying the area while the troops rushed ashore. I just shook my head and tried to comprehend the horror they faced...I raise a glass to all of them that stepped off those landing craft and began the long, bloody march into Germany.

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