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info on "out of memory error"


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hey all..

Have posted a ticket to Battlefront tech support thingy,

but was wanting to get some info on this error that seems to pop up on large or overwhelmed missions..

had it happen to me twice last night while playing the purple heart scenario in the repository, good mission. realy enjoyed it, until i got to about 40 mins left of the mission....and it crashed on me..even on reloading the save point, it crashed again..

is it my system?? im running a dual core 2.6mhz, with a nvidia 8600 gts 640mb. and 2gb of ram?

wanting to know, as im in the field for a system upgrade..

realy is a downer as these sort of games are more enjoyable in large scenarios...

anyone else had this much? have even had it creep up in shock force as it is prety much the same game..

has battlefront learned anything about it yet? whats the most likely cause, sounds interesting.

kind regards Norm.

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Out of memory error would be the system memory, not the vid card or the processor.

Regardless, I'd recommend upgrading your memory to 4GB unless you think you'll be changing to an entirely new system soon. System memory is a fairly cheap, easy upgrade that will return you a substantial performance increase.

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2 gigs is not a lot of RAM but this happens to others who do have lots of RAM.

I have 6 gigs and have virtual Ram set to 15gigs and it still happened with CMSF. I haven't run into it yet with CMBN but have not played any large scenarios through to the end.

BF has acknowldged that there is a memory leak somewhere but I don't think it's been fixed. You would think that once your RAM is eaten up and your virtual memory (which gets eaten up very quickly) the game would just stutter instead of crashing.

Either way, more RAM will only be a good thing for your system.

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RAM is cheap, but im running xp... which only reads something like 3gb ram..

as ive heard windows vista and 7 dont support CMBO,CMBB,CMAK...graphics, mainly weathering like fog.. lol

3GB is still a 50% increase to your system RAM, and a bigger increase to what's available to the game, since there's a certain base amount that's always taken up by the operating system.

Overall, upgrading to 4MB is very worthwhile, even on XP. No point in going higher than that, though, until you are running an OS that can address it.

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I've been consistently getting this "Out of Memory" crash while playing the 2nd battle of the campaign "Courage and Fortitude". I has happened about a dozen times!

I have 3GB RAM, GTX 465, DualCore E8500 Intel.

It happens while the game is calculating the WEGO turn.

This is just the result of very inefficient programming/memory leaks. I have monitored the memory allocation to the CMBN process. As you play more turns, the memory allocated gets bigger and bigger. There is no reason why it should except bad programming.

So if you save and reload, the game starts "fresh" again and generally wont crash for a few more turns. However it does seem to get worse/happen sooner when there are more units on the map. I am now at a point where my current save is only good for about 5-6 turns before it crashes out again.

I too have submitted a ticket.

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This is just the result of very inefficient programming/memory leaks. I have monitored the memory allocation to the CMBN process. As you play more turns, the memory allocated gets bigger and bigger. There is no reason why it should except bad programming.

That's absolutely not true. On the Mac side, for instance, there is a bug in a particular OpenGL function that will continually allocate new memory with each call and not release it. It's not the programmer's fault - there's nothing the programmer can do except hunt down the offending calls, remove them from the engine, and work around the lack of that OpenGL capability. Which is precisely what I did. Unfortunately not all problems like this are so easy to track down and may require particular hardware / OS combinations to show themselves.

Are you running 64-bit Windows?

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I've been consistently getting this "Out of Memory" crash while playing the 2nd battle of the campaign "Courage and Fortitude". I has happened about a dozen times!

I have 3GB RAM, GTX 465, DualCore E8500 Intel.

It happens while the game is calculating the WEGO turn.

This is just the result of very inefficient programming/memory leaks. I have monitored the memory allocation to the CMBN process. As you play more turns, the memory allocated gets bigger and bigger. There is no reason why it should except bad programming.

So if you save and reload, the game starts "fresh" again and generally wont crash for a few more turns. However it does seem to get worse/happen sooner when there are more units on the map. I am now at a point where my current save is only good for about 5-6 turns before it crashes out again.

I too have submitted a ticket.

That's absolutely not true. On the Mac side, for instance, there is a bug in a particular OpenGL function that will continually allocate new memory with each call and not release it. It's not the programmer's fault - there's nothing the programmer can do except hunt down the offending calls, remove them from the engine, and work around the lack of that OpenGL capability. Which is precisely what I did. Unfortunately not all problems like this are so easy to track down and may require particular hardware / OS combinations to show themselves.

Are you running 64-bit Windows?

WinXP. What's not true? Bad programming is to blame be it BFC, OpenGL, Microsoft or both/all.

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WinXP. What's not true? Bad programming is to blame be it BFC, OpenGL, Microsoft or both/all.

Or it could be deliberate. Maybe it's a design decision somewhere along the line. Or maybe it's hardware that's got a bug in it and has nothing to do with programming at all. Simply to say "it must be bad programming" - that's not correct. Your particular problem? Sounds like an OS or driver issue. I'm running the same scenarios with half your hardware and I haven't had an out of memory error yet.

Now, I came to this thread to let you know that I'm looking into the problem. If any of you has additional details you'd like to pass along, or information you think I can use (e.g. what you were doing when you ran out of memory, etc.) feel free to PM me. If the information is in your tickets, great.

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I have a saved game from that campaign that will consistency crash with the "Out of Memory" error during turn calculation about 5-6 turns in from the save. This campaign battle timer is at 27min (started at 1hr 30 I think) and I believe all the US reinforcements have arrived.

I have sent it to your email address.

Do you acknowledge that if you monitor the memory allocation to CMBN (at least during this game) that the memory allocation progressively increases with each turn? I do.

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I have a saved game from that campaign that will consistency crash with the "Out of Memory" error during turn calculation about 5-6 turns in from the save. This campaign battle timer is at 27min (started at 1hr 30 I think) and I believe all the US reinforcements have arrived.

I have sent it to your email address.

Thank you.

Do you acknowledge that if you monitor the memory allocation to CMBN (at least during this game) that the memory allocation progressively increases with each turn? I do.

A running program allocates memory. The game loads resources over time, as elements like units are introduced. This involves allocating small amounts of memory as the game progresses. That doesn't mean there's a memory "leak". It means the program is running. It's perfectly normal. It shouldn't be very large amounts of memory, it will eventually stop once everything is loaded, and it shouldn't make the game crash.

Look, are you having a problem? Yes! That's why I'm looking into it. Do you know what a memory leak looks like? I doubt it - there are a number of *programmers* who have never diagnosed a real memory leak. That's okay. You know you have a problem, and I know all about memory leaks - I can check it out and see what's causing your issue.

But - you're helping neither yourself nor me by talking about bad programming, or talking as though there's something I'm not "acknowledging". I'm simply keeping an open mind, and hoping you'll do me the same courtesy.

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When I was having this issue I thought to myself, why is CMSF the only game I have that has an out of memory error? Same goes for the problems I had with ATI drivers and CMSF, all my other games ran fine. Eventually I stopped trying to play CMSF because of these problems.

If these problems stem from a conflict with major system factors like my OS or GPU drivers, and the companies who design and distribute those components are not able to work directly with BF, then from where I am sitting it's on BF to work around an OS or GPU drivers to make it work. I know BF is working with us to find the problems, but I don't think the memory error has ever been figured out.

With GPU's there are basically 2 options, NVidia or ATI so you know what your customers are going to be using. With OS's there are a few more variations but 99% of us are using Windows and likely 98 - XP -Vista - or 7.

So without knowing the first thing about programming, it seems to me that BF knows the limited number of possible combinations they need to accomodate.

If it comes down to other variables like amount of RAM, antivirus, firewalls etc. then that's up to the player to find what works, because there are too many more options for BF to consider.

I'm whining I know, but it seems like there are ongoing problems (for a few of us) with the game and the fundamental components of most computers, that persisted in CMSF and seem to be coming up again with CMBN. They are only happening to the vast minority of us, and I haven't seen any threads about ATI drivers failing, which is good news for me because that's what I have.

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Problems vary across video card models, not necessarily manufacturers. Quite a lot of problems are specific to one or two models of cards. With the Mac side, there have been reported bugs from a half-dozen different video card models, and a) they only have one set of drivers (there are no legitimate third-party drivers, and driver version is the same as OS version), and B) there is a very limited number of useable video cards on OSX. Still to have caught these problems we would have needed to have on hand most of the models of Mac built in the last five years.

On Windows it's far more complicated. We can never be sure which driver version is in use, which precise manufacturer (eVGA, etc.) of card, or which specific OS type might have problems, and once we know it is usually impossible to get in touch with all of the associated parties - we're small and they ignore us for the most part. And yes, we create workarounds for these issues if it's possible.

So - there are hundreds of combinations. There's no way for us to test them all.

As to other games working - most games use DirectX, which Microsoft and driver creators support heavily. Combat Mission uses OpenGL, which is less favored. Even then there are a lot of DirectX problems, you just (again) have to be using the right combination of driver, card, and OS to have them. In essence, with DirectX you have to have bad luck to have problems (I know I have - I couldn't run Fallout 3 for months due to a DirectX problem, and that's from a company with probably 100 times our resources). With OpenGL it's bad luck + neglect by the driver creators.

We continue to try and work around these problems. It's not always possible. A work around that works for most people may not work for all. A problem that is solved in one case may pop up again in another case. And yes, in cases like this, RAM, programs in the background, and OS version may all have an impact.

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Problems vary across video card models, not necessarily manufacturers. Quite a lot of problems are specific to one or two models of cards. With the Mac side, there have been reported bugs from a half-dozen different video card models, and a) they only have one set of drivers (there are no legitimate third-party drivers, and driver version is the same as OS version), and B) there is a very limited number of useable video cards on OSX. Still to have caught these problems we would have needed to have on hand most of the models of Mac built in the last five years.

On Windows it's far more complicated. We can never be sure which driver version is in use, which precise manufacturer (eVGA, etc.) of card, or which specific OS type might have problems, and once we know it is usually impossible to get in touch with all of the associated parties - we're small and they ignore us for the most part. And yes, we create workarounds for these issues if it's possible.

So - there are hundreds of combinations. There's no way for us to test them all.

As to other games working - most games use DirectX, which Microsoft and driver creators support heavily. Combat Mission uses OpenGL, which is less favored. Even then there are a lot of DirectX problems, you just (again) have to be using the right combination of driver, card, and OS to have them. In essence, with DirectX you have to have bad luck to have problems (I know I have - I couldn't run Fallout 3 for months due to a DirectX problem, and that's from a company with probably 100 times our resources). With OpenGL it's bad luck + neglect by the driver creators.

We continue to try and work around these problems. It's not always possible. A work around that works for most people may not work for all. A problem that is solved in one case may pop up again in another case. And yes, in cases like this, RAM, programs in the background, and OS version may all have an impact.

i know very little about coding/programming etc..but can you explain something to me? i have no issues with the game just interested in this thread.

you say ''most games use DirectX, which Microsoft and driver creators support heavily. Combat Mission uses OpenGL, which is less favored.''

why would you select the least favoured and supported drivers?

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It's a decision Charles made back when the engine was created - something like six or seven years ago. Microsoft's real OpenGL neglect started around the release of Vista, which came out about five months before CMSF did and several years after work on the engine began.

MS deliberately cut off active support for paths they didn't need for their own use (for quite some time OpenGL support *at all* under Vista was hit or miss), and ATI and Nvidia followed suit in not fully supporting the same features going forward. From a technical standpoint OpenGL is superior to DirectX in many ways - but Microsoft owns DirectX. It has every reason to hobble support for OpenGL.

So: we didn't select the least favored option. We chose what was, under Windows XP, a viable option, and it was made less viable by the later actions of MS and video card manufacturers. Now even under Windows XP there are problems because, unless you're using video drivers from 2005, you've got the same pattern of active neglect present there.

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There's also the fact that you really can't run DirectX under Mac OS, which natively supports OpenGL. So rather than attempting to recode the entire game engine to run on the Mac (or run in some sort of questionable 'converter/emulator'), it was easier to write to one graphics API that was supported/usable on both platforms - and that turns out to be OpenGL.

The DOOM series of games and many other game engines from 'id' were OpenGL.

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Love to know the percentage of CM2 sales for MAC -vs- PC.

For those of you too young to remember DOOM...it was released in 1993 on 3.5" & 5.25" floppy disks.

So to move to DirectX BF needs to start from scratch and build a new game engine. Where is that on the to-do list? :) I joke.

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id Tech 4 was built on OpenGL as well - games like Doom 3, Quake 4, and Quake Wars, most released pre-Vista or around Vista. Like I said, several years back, OpenGL was at least fully, if not well, supported. Now it's far more iffy.

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It's a decision Charles made back when the engine was created - something like six or seven years ago. Microsoft's real OpenGL neglect started around the release of Vista, which came out about five months before CMSF did and several years after work on the engine began.

MS deliberately cut off active support for paths they didn't need for their own use (for quite some time OpenGL support *at all* under Vista was hit or miss), and ATI and Nvidia followed suit in not fully supporting the same features going forward. From a technical standpoint OpenGL is superior to DirectX in many ways - but Microsoft owns DirectX. It has every reason to hobble support for OpenGL.

So: we didn't select the least favored option. We chose what was, under Windows XP, a viable option, and it was made less viable by the later actions of MS and video card manufacturers. Now even under Windows XP there are problems because, unless you're using video drivers from 2005, you've got the same pattern of active neglect present there.

I see, well i have learned something new today. Thanks for the informative reply :-)

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That's absolutely not true. On the Mac side, for instance, there is a bug in a particular OpenGL function that will continually allocate new memory with each call and not release it. It's not the programmer's fault - there's nothing the programmer can do except hunt down the offending calls, remove them from the engine, and work around the lack of that OpenGL capability. Which is precisely what I did. Unfortunately not all problems like this are so easy to track down and may require particular hardware / OS combinations to show themselves.

Are you running 64-bit Windows?

I have saw several folks argue about the "out of memory"who use the 64-bit Win7.

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