Huzzar!

[gunnergoz]

(snip)

I don't want to spoil it, but it has everything. Close in infantry fighting, nail biting ambushes and even 1500 meter tank duels.

If you've had 1500 meter tank encounters, they can't be "duels"...you must mean German Panthers and Tigers sniping at American M4 sitting ducks at 1500 meters.

[JG11Preusse]

If you've had 1500 meter tank encounters, they can't be "duels"...you must mean German Panthers and Tigers sniping at American M4 sitting ducks at 1500 meters.

there are no tigers in this map, only panthers and stug´s

[gunnergoz]

Panthers are still bad enough, their long 75 was a real Sherman killer, even at range.

[Paper Tiger]

Broadsword

I believe you'll find this map among the QB maps. It is called:

Assault Large Rough (bocage - water) QB - 025

Attack Large Rough (bocage - water) QB - 25

Probe Large Rough (bocage - water) QB - 25

[DeLaVega]

Okay, finally finished this lovely map, although not quite satisfied with the end result (How can 18 knocked out enemy tanks, 15 armored vehicles and 200 infantry lost vs. my 0 lost tank, 5 armored vehicles and 12 infantry casualties just be acceptable?)

I had to make a screenshot of a tight defensive situation...

Who is more stubborn here, the attacker or the (2) defenders? :-)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[Agua]

Just finished this, playing as German. Beautiful map. Outstanding scenario design. I'm very impressed with the AI's ability to coordinate an assault. Ran in to no charging zooks, mg, or mortars.

SPOILERS FOLLOW

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I don't know how much of the approach of the AI is variable in this scenario; I hope there are several potential main axes of advance, but I was a bit surprised, and pleased, to find that rather than go after any of the marked crossing points, the AI chose to cross at an unmarked ford on the right hand side of the map which I had actually overlooked at first. After marshalling the stugs to the area of the main bridge and AZ1 (the ford just to the right of the village), and the panthers to the Alternative Crossing, I noted what looked to be a ford on the far right of the map. I dispatched one of the pumas and a stug to that ford then noted sound contacts on that end of the map. Following the road net, it became obvious there was going to be a crossing of some force at the little unmarked ford.

I hurried a panther all the way across the map to a turn in the road just above the crossing. Before it arrived, a couple shermans had toasted my stug and puma. The panther met them just as the entered onto the dirt road as it crosses into the more open field bocage country and out of the riverine forest. Before it was over, I'd shifted a couple platoons of inf over to the crossing with the lone panther keeping the US armor and HTs holed up in the woods veiling the little crossing. It wasn't until around 5 minutes prior to the time allotment expiring that the outcome seemed sealed.

Does the AI have the capability of choosing a different axis of advance in this scenario?

Excellent, excellent scenario.

[DeLaVega]

Actually I have to say that the AI didn`t make the brightest moves when I was playing the scenario. As you can see on my screenshot on the previous page the AI moved the halftracks and one sherman out of the forest directly in front of the StuG`s. And this happened over the course of at least 20-30 turns. I haven`t moved the StuG`s at all, but the AI was not able to handle them differently. All halftracks were packed with infantry, so the most of them fell with the first hit by the StuG. Would the AI have unloaded all halftracks before and flank the StuG`s in the dense forest they would have been an easy target. I only protected them with a platoon of Recon troops.

However, the AI ingnored the assault guns and left the forest right before their muzzle. And even after the whole path was blocked with burning vehicles it still tried to force tanks down the way towards the StuG`s. So somehow I got the feeling that something`s not working properly. On one hand the AI uses the most difficult way in pushing even its vehicles through thick forest, but on the other hand it`s not able to adjust the pincer move slightly after "realizing" that taking the original path means utter destruction.

[sburke]

Okay, finally finished this lovely map, although not quite satisfied with the end result (How can 18 knocked out enemy tanks, 15 armored vehicles and 200 infantry lost vs. my 0 lost tank, 5 armored vehicles and 12 infantry casualties just be acceptable?)

I have played this one, but it has been a bit. I would go back and review the victory conditions and check who holds what ground. I can't remember if the conditions were primarily for casualties or locations. The primary objective if I recall was for the Germans to hold the main bridge crossing.

I loved the map as well, but felt the AI had some real difficulty maneuvering on it from both sides. As the Germans I was able to surround the American forces stuck in front of the main bridge and almost completely annihilated them. Having played from the American side first i had a better idea of where the choke points were. As the Americans I had a bit of a tougher time though the AI had real problems getting the halftracks through and that delay made life a lot easier on me.

[gunnergoz]

Doesn't look like many are trying this scenario from the American side. If you are, I'd like to hear your experience and impressions.

I'm about 40 minutes into it and my recon units have killed off the German recon units and their tanks are only now beginning to show up at a distance, in one corner of the map and are slowly beginning to approach the objective that has a farm across the river from it. I already occupy the village, having cleaned out what recon elements were trying to hold it.

[sburke]

Doesn't look like many are trying this scenario from the American side. If you are, I'd like to hear your experience and impressions.

I'm about 40 minutes into it and my recon units have killed off the German recon units and their tanks are only now beginning to show up at a distance, in one corner of the map and are slowly beginning to approach the objective that has a farm across the river from it. I already occupy the village, having cleaned out what recon elements were trying to hold it.

I tried it first from the American side. My experience was similar, but I divided up my recon on the left side of the river. One section was sent to cross to the far left of the town figuring the main bridge was too exposed. The other half of that group went into an overwatch position on the main bridge. Got an M5 hull down on the road leading into the town and nailed the German recon vehicles trying to maneuver down those little streets. On the other side I got another M5 into overwatch on that small bridge by the manor and hit the rest of the German recon crossing there.

The Panthers gave me some trouble and I ended up playing cat and mouse with them in the hedgerows on the right hand side (from the American view). Was actually pretty tense. The StuGs and halftracks though just got shot to pieces. I even had an M5 stalking an StuG through the hedgerows and hit it so many times it eventually just broke down and sat there waiting for me to finally get a Sherman to put a round up it's exhaust.

[Broken]

Doesn't look like many are trying this scenario from the American side. If you are, I'd like to hear your experience and impressions.

I'm about 40 minutes into it and my recon units have killed off the German recon units and their tanks are only now beginning to show up at a distance, in one corner of the map and are slowly beginning to approach the objective that has a farm across the river from it. I already occupy the village, having cleaned out what recon elements were trying to hold it.

It is a little harder as the Americans against the AI, but not much. Total or Major victory is not difficult unless you are really rushing your moves. The Vet Panthers will nail anything within sight, so you have to be careful with your LOS checks, even if you think you are moving your Shermans to a "safe" location. This seems to be generally true in the bocage environment. But the Panthers eventually have to come to you, and you can play the usual flanking tactics at close range.

[Broken]

Okay, finally finished this lovely map, although not quite satisfied with the end result (How can 18 knocked out enemy tanks, 15 armored vehicles and 200 infantry lost vs. my 0 lost tank, 5 armored vehicles and 12 infantry casualties just be acceptable?)

I had to make a screenshot of a tight defensive situation...

Who is more stubborn here, the attacker or the (2) defenders? :-)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Hilarious. I had two stugs sitting at the same river ford with nearly identical results. The AI was relentless in sending down fresh meat for my "Stug Brothers".

[gunnergoz]

Funny, mine looks like that too but they're all StuG's and SpW's.

[hm_stanley]

I'm at 16 minutes left...

center town is held and moved deep into territory. right and left flanks are holding and firm.. I'm starting the push on the right flank after .. well.. carnage.. they kept coming and well.. I kept shooting.

very very very good scenario.. it took me three days to play it. I think it's 30 minutes per day, or at least that's my time sink. This scenario is really three different battles and a real test for a battalion commander.

I think the push (or at least what I did) is press the center. That seemed to really work.

I've lost two stugs, 1 panther, and causalities are very limited. Really gives you an idea of how powerful these recon detachments were..

fantastic game.

[George MC]

Jings! I go away for a few days...

Cheers for all the comments guys - really interesting to see how differant people play this. I'll respond to some of the main point raised.

There are three differant AI Plans in this one - for both sides. For the US if I recall they attack down several differant centre lines, two of which are variations on a theme, one of which is a wide ball. The main difficulty I had with the attack AI Plans is co-ordinating stuff. Still it sort of works although one of my main gripes with the AI is it's propensity to keep coming on to it's death. Until we get triggers I think this is a game engine limitattion scenario designers just have to be aware of and work around.

FWIW for the wide ball attack - if the German player is slow of the mark the US force can become a real issue as it then has space to fan out. If the german player (as you guys all seem to be) is quick of the mark or IDs this wide ball plan then you can catch the attcking force in a bottleneck. Badaboom - big badaboom.

When I put this together I had thought of three main phases - recon/counter recon; advance to contact; close range fight for the objectives (with some surprises thrown in). So I'm pleased to see and hear that is how it generally pans out. I'm working on a large map with larger forces with the intent to create a multi layer scenario (recce; manouver; attack including long range tank duelling, PAK fronts and close range infantry fighting all at reduced battalion level).

Anyways thanks for all the feedback - really appreciate it - andkeep your comment coming I'm enjoying reading em thanks

[gunnergoz]

All I can say about playing the US side is that speed is your friend. Get them recon guys out there quick, cover all the main roads into the center of the map, try and deny the German recon assets from completing their mission and when you get the US armor, move it forward aggressively to take out the weaker Stugs and almost defenseless h/t's. I ended up with a total victory and the panthers never even came down the hill to challenge me after all their supporting assets had been wiped out.

I'll probably try it again some day to see if the German AI has alternate attack plans and routes of advance. I hope so...it is a challenge to "get there fustest with the mostest."

[hm_stanley]

What is the likelihood of getting triggers in the AI?

That would be rather cool to say if x => y then do this.. for any type unit.. or even better, move to defensive positions here.. this would really add a worthwhile level of complexity to solitaire games..

[George MC]

What is the likelihood of getting triggers in the AI?

That would be rather cool to say if x => y then do this.. for any type unit.. or even better, move to defensive positions here.. this would really add a worthwhile level of complexity to solitaire games..

It's on 'The List' - BFC had said they are keen but I can't say for sure when triggers will find their way into CMX2. Fingers crossed for sooner rather than latter. You are right it would add another layer of complexity and variation both in playing and scenario designing

[George MC]

All I can say about playing the US side is that speed is your friend. Get them recon guys out there quick, cover all the main roads into the center of the map, try and deny the German recon assets from completing their mission and when you get the US armor, move it forward aggressively to take out the weaker Stugs and almost defenseless h/t's. I ended up with a total victory and the panthers never even came down the hill to challenge me after all their supporting assets had been wiped out.

I'll probably try it again some day to see if the German AI has alternate attack plans and routes of advance. I hope so...it is a challenge to "get there fustest with the mostest."

Good skills mate - spot in with your general plan.

FYI German AI has three varied plans

[Cull]

Just wanted to add my positive endorsement of this scenario as well. Very well done George.

And I'll say that having AI plans in CMx2 is obviously a big improvement, but yeah, the AI still tries to force it's way to the next order area regardless of how much of a death trap it's facing. Limitation of AI indeed, and not much to be done, I suspect, until the next "leap" in AI.

Unfortunately it's especially highlighted in CMBN due to the multitude of narrow lanes and bocage, and I've seen it in varying degrees of in just about every game I've played.

I've played "Huzzar!" once as German, and while I was delighted that the AI tried to take the ford crossing (as opposed to the more obvious main highway route), once they got there I had them in a deadly crossfire of Panthers, Stugs, and artillery...but they just kept trying as the burning tanks and halftracks piled up on the river banks.

Nonetheless, it was great that I did have to do some quick maneuvering to get set up for the ambush. In CMx1 a meeting engagement just boiled down to a race to the best position/victory location, and whomever got there first could usually just sit back and shoot fish in a barrel. At least now there's some anticipation---and occasional surprise---at least early in the engagement.

Anyway again, thanks George for one of the better scenarios of CM I've ever played.

[Broken]

Jings! I go away for a few days...

Cheers for all the comments guys - really interesting to see how differant people play this. I'll respond to some of the main point raised.

There are three differant AI Plans in this one - for both sides. For the US if I recall they attack down several differant centre lines, two of which are variations on a theme, one of which is a wide ball. The main difficulty I had with the attack AI Plans is co-ordinating stuff. Still it sort of works although one of my main gripes with the AI is it's propensity to keep coming on to it's death. Until we get triggers I think this is a game engine limitattion scenario designers just have to be aware of and work around.

FWIW for the wide ball attack - if the German player is slow of the mark the US force can become a real issue as it then has space to fan out. If the german player (as you guys all seem to be) is quick of the mark or IDs this wide ball plan then you can catch the attcking force in a bottleneck. Badaboom - big badaboom.

When I put this together I had thought of three main phases - recon/counter recon; advance to contact; close range fight for the objectives (with some surprises thrown in). So I'm pleased to see and hear that is how it generally pans out. I'm working on a large map with larger forces with the intent to create a multi layer scenario (recce; manouver; attack including long range tank duelling, PAK fronts and close range infantry fighting all at reduced battalion level).

Anyways thanks for all the feedback - really appreciate it - andkeep your comment coming I'm enjoying reading em thanks

Definitely a top notch creation. The map must have taken you forever. The multiple phases of the battle make it seem like three games in one.

Not everyone played as the Germans. My first game, and evidently Gunnergoz's, was as the Americans. It was very creepy encountering all the knocked-out German hardware (at night!) when I first advanced through the river crossings.

My only issue is plotting all the vehicle movement along the narrow roads. It would really help if Battlefront could add a "Copy Waypoints" command which would copy one vehicle's waypoint-string to another vehicle. Then you would only need to plot the first vehicle in a convoy and the rest of the vehicles could attach that waypoint-string to their own. This plus adjustable waypoints (to fix the path of the inevitable vehicle which goes off-course).

Thanks again for an excellent scenario.

[Agua]

My only issue is plotting all the vehicle movement along the narrow roads. It would really help if Battlefront could add a "Copy Waypoints" command which would copy one vehicle's waypoint-string to another vehicle. Then you would only need to plot the first vehicle in a convoy and the rest of the vehicles could attach that waypoint-string to their own. This plus adjustable waypoints (to fix the path of the inevitable vehicle which goes off-course).

Thanks again for an excellent scenario.

I'd love a command like that too. I'll say, in this scenario in particular, when the panthers enter, they have to cross an open field with a lot of zig-zagging involved and the first couple of cats were issued those orders until I realized, "hey, its open field". Bottom line, I just gave mass move orders from their entry point to the destination I wanted and they all made it there fine, even with several 90 degree turns through the woods from which they entered the map.

[Cull]

My only issue is plotting all the vehicle movement along the narrow roads. It would really help if Battlefront could add a "Copy Waypoints" command which would copy one vehicle's waypoint-string to another vehicle. Then you would only need to plot the first vehicle in a convoy and the rest of the vehicles could attach that waypoint-string to their own. This plus adjustable waypoints (to fix the path of the inevitable vehicle which goes off-course).

Yeah, long-time, popular wishlist item for CM.

The fact that the tedium of moving columns/groups of vehicles didn't make me quit this scenario is actually quite a testament to how good it is; sadly, I usually avoid battles with lots of vehicles that require column and/or road movement because it annoys me so much.

That said, once you learn some "tricks"---plotting waypoints accurately at turns, using the "pause" command, etc---it's tolerable.

Still, thinking about the amount of time/tedium that a "column" feature would save....I'll keep dreaming

[FkDahl]

I just started stalking Panthers ... and something said Ping (not the game) and my computer hung... do tell me there is an autosave!!!!? Aaargh!

[George MC]

Yeah an autosave would be useful - especially when in the scenario editor. Still I've developed the habit of saving often - especially when creating scenarios and when playing large ones. Very easy to exit the game (especially if in a hurry i.e. late for work!) and forget to save...