Track Damage from Terrain

[eniced73]

Two quick things. Not complaints but just observations. I searched the forums for track damage and did not see an informatioin on this so I thought I would post FYI.

1. Moved all four of my Shermans across what I believe is low bocage? Each and every one ended up with 'track' damage. Just flipped back to my game and ran the other two over another low hedge/bocage and seen the same thing. I did a quick test and found that the initial collision causes the damage to go from green to yellow on tracks. I am pretty sure it took me 5 more collisions with a wire fence to get the tracks to go from yellow box to small yellow with 'x' inside. Not sure how far you would have to go to become immobile. I do know that a jeep will become immobile in around 6 collisions. Anyone have specifics on what and the amount of damage that certain terrain does to vehicles?

[Wengart]

As far as I can tell its the same across the board. Which is rather unfortunate, because I feel like wire fencing, or wooden for that matter, wouldn't slow a tank down, and most definitely wouldn't cause track damage.

[Blackcat]

I am not sure about this but I noticed in Busting the Bocage that all my Rhino tanks had track damage afer a while and one of them ended with such severe damage it could barely move. I am sure that none of them were hit by any AT fire so I wondered whether breaching bocage using the cullins device did damage to the tracks. I can't find anything about this in the manual, but if my surmise is correct the use of culins device does not come free, which is an point worth considering.

[Wengart]

Running over any obstacle damages tracks and slows the vehicle down.

wire fence

wood fence

low stone wall

low hedge (not to be confused with low bocage)

bocage with a cullins device

[Blackcat]

Further to my last I just ran a quick test and using a Rhino to cross a bocage hedgerow immediately reduces tracks to solid yellow. Using the tank to create additional breaches doesn't inflict addtional damage immediately but there could be a non-linear, cummulative effect.

Smashing a tank through a wooden fence produced no damage.

[dieseltaylor]

Excellent stuff.

[Vark]

As far as I can tell its the same across the board. Which is rather unfortunate, because I feel like wire fencing, or wooden for that matter, wouldn't slow a tank down, and most definitely wouldn't cause track damage.

I thought tankers were quite wary about wire, as it can wrap around the drive sprockets and wheels. Read an account of a PzIV crewman who was the only survivor because he was outside on his back, under the tank, with a pair of bolt cutters snipping away barbed wire that had virtually immobilised the tank.

[sand digger]

Any cumulative physical track damage would be unrealistic so I hope that is not a feature. Tracks usually will break or not at the time of the incident, they could crack I suppose and then break later but basically cumulative physical damage does not usually happen in the real world. Other than the usual wear and tear of course.

[Blackcat]

Any cumulative physical track damage would be unrealistic so I hope that is not a feature. Tracks usually will break or not at the time of the incident, they could crack I suppose and then break later but basically cumulative physical damage does not usually happen in the real world. Other than the usual wear and tear of course.

That makes sense. Driving through bocage hedge with a Rihno on the first occasion seems to always produce immediate damage. Creating subsequent breaches doesn't seem to produce any track damage,as far as I have been able to test.

However, I have noticed further track damage during the course of a scenario which can't be explained by enemy fire. If it is not a case of non-linear cummulative damage then there must be a probability model at work with some strange parameters (100% on first event then 100-n% for subsequent events).

Wengart says that damage is also caused when driving through wodden fences. I haven't been able to reproduce this. So maybe there is a probability model at work and its implementation for bocage is not spot on. Dunno, when the full game comes out it will be possible to set up some test driving ranges and maybe get to the bottom of this.

For now, be aware using a culins device repeatedly may seriously damage your tank.

[Magpie_Oz]

I've seen bulldozers shed a track if you are try too hard to get over uneven terrain. maybe the "yellowing" is a mechanism to represent the ruggedness of the Bocage that might lead to a shed track ?

[JSB]

Tanks are now able to crush low walls (at least rural ones, I saw it once: can't remember seeing this happening in CMSF???), but I didn't check the track status...

[sand digger]

Throwing a track would more likely be related to driver experience and vehicle speed in relation to the terrain than anything else. Like most mobility failures it would not be cumulative, either the vehicle would have effective mobility or it would not.

[slysniper]

I just love the fact that this is even in the game, had not noticed the concept of this terrain doing damage to the unit. in the 12 years plus of programming these games keep getting more and more detailed, it is nice to see.

[guachi]

One great thing about all these details being modeled it it makes smaller games much more fun that CMx1. And when you play a large scenario, you can konw that 'the little things' are all being taken care of automatically.

[NCOIC]

I drove an M1 back in the 90's and there are situations that can cause "cumulative" track damage.

I was driving through a gully when my green LT asked me to turn up the bank on the left. I slowly pulled forward, knowing this was a bad idea, and began to hear a clacking sound. I backed up and told the LT it was a bad idea. We eventually exited the gully over a less steep embankment.

Later on, while checking track, several of the center guides had been sheered off. If we would have continued, or tried again to exit the gully, I'm certain we would have lost the track. So some damage was caused, but we lost no mobility.

[sand digger]

Nice example NCOIC of driver experience being very relevant.

[Magpie_Oz]

I think it is also an example of cumulative track damage?

You lost some centre guides on one thing which weakened the track so had you done a similar thing again it might have shed the track easier because of the previous damage?

[Blackcat]

I think it is also an example of cumulative track damage?

You lost some centre guides on one thing which weakened the track so had you done a similar thing again it might have shed the track easier because of the previous damage?

I agree, Mr. Oz. What we don't know though is whether cumulative track damage occurs in the game, or whether there is a probablility model at work. As nobody from BF or the beta team has commented on this I shall have to set up a test track and explore the issue. Watch this space.

[Blackcat]

OK, there is a probability model at work regarding track damage and Rhino tanks.

I set up a test rack with 8 Rhino's and 16 lines of High Bocage to be crossed. Every tank took one level of track damage at the first crossing. At the third 2 tanks took anonther level of damage. At the fourth those 6 tanks which crossed the third level unscathed all took a second level of damage. At the Fith one took a third level of damage and the other 7 got through OK. At the 7th 3 tanks were immobilised whilst tring to force the breach. At the 8th three more were immobilised and the last two went down with total track failure at the 9th. Neither crew quality or speed of advance made any difference. On subsequent runs very similar results were achieved (none ever made beyond the nineth line).

By contrast running through fences (wire or wood) never resulted in more than one level of damage in crossing all 16 lines.

So use your scarce Rhino tanks carefully becuase if you don't you stand a good chance of having them immobilised.

[sburke]

OK, there is a probability model at work regarding track damage and Rhino tanks.

I set up a test rack with 8 Rhino's and 16 lines of High Bocage to be crossed. Every tank took one level of track damage at the first crossing. At the third 2 tanks took anonther level of damage. At the fourth those 6 tanks which crossed the third level unscathed all took a second level of damage. At the Fith one took a third level of damage and the other 7 got through OK. At the 7th 3 tanks were immobilised whilst tring to force the breach. At the 8th three more were immobilised and the last two went down with total track failure at the 9th. Neither crew quality or speed of advance made any difference. On subsequent runs very similar results were achieved (none ever made beyond the nineth line).

By contrast running through fences (wire or wood) never resulted in more than one level of damage in crossing all 16 lines.

So use your scarce Rhino tanks carefully becuase if you don't you stand a good chance of having them immobilised.

excellent info, thanks for the detail

[eniced73]

You are the man. I knew someone would throw together a test scenario addressing this issue.

[sand digger]

Lacking anything else I suppose cumulative track damage is better than nothing but crew experience/quality would be relevant to all aspects of a tank's performance and so would be a lot more realistic. A simple demonstration of that would be German ace crews who, for various reasons, were able to gain experience over time and so improve their performance which would include looking after their vehicle.

[Blackcat]

Nice test Blackcat!

Does speed affect the probability of track damage?

If you still have that test scenario, can you give 2 tanks a "slow" move command, 1 a "move" command, 1 a "quick" move command and the other to a "fast" command and reprot here the result?

I did that already, in fact I ran all the tanks through at, Slow, Move, Quick and Fast. There was no significant difference in the results. I am not really surprised because when they get to the bocage the tanks slow right down anyway whilst they make the breach.

Crew quality had no discernable effect either. At first I found that a bit odd, but on reflection it does make sense - the roots branches etc that would cause the damage are wholly outside the influence of the crew, is is just a mater of luck.

[Pkunzipper]

I did that already, in fact I ran all the tanks through at, Slow, Move, Quick and Fast. There was no significant difference in the results. I am not really surprised because when they get to the bocage the tanks slow right down anyway whilst they make the breach.

Crew quality had no discernable effect either. At first I found that a bit odd, but on reflection it does make sense - the roots branches etc that would cause the damage are wholly outside the influence of the crew, is is just a mater of luck.

LOL, just deleted my post in the moment you replied, as I just saw you already stated to have tested with every speed command.

Yeah, tanks slow down before crossing an obstacle, so it makes sense that speed does'nt affect the probability of damaging the tracks. Thanks for answering.

[Major.Pain]

Playing a QB last night on a huge map where i set up a meeting engagement with a mixture of 20 plus tanks on either side and before there had been any enemy contacts at all i had four of my tanks Panzer IV and Stugs unable to any further and listed as "immobile".

I was playing RT so i could not check how it happened only that they had indeed lost there tracks. They had not been pathed through any trees or hedge/bocage only across slightly uneven terrain on route to the centre of the map. Was wondering has any body experienced this with Halftracks losing there tracks for no apparent reason.