Pandur Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 well they talk about the diameter of trees in the video. the 3 videos show "roughly" 3 different tests. its a little hard to explain as i am no tree grog and dont want to waste time on a pointless discussion. test/part1, light woods test/part2, heavy woods with trees up to 50cm to 70cm in diameter. test/part3, CMx1 like "tall pines" which are predominant as cultivated forests in germany, roghly 30cm to 40cm diameter. test 2 and 3 had 2 parts. a part with isolated tests against single trees of different diameter with different slope angles, and a part where a path through a section of a forest was selected, 50 to 100 meters in lenght and the tank had to get through. they looked how fast this was possible and how many tries the tank needed if it made it at all that is. also from test 2 onwards they had 2 tanks, one with rubber padded tracks and one with steel tracks. steel tracks where found much better. in the end i dont think that one can take anything from this 3 videos to apply to CM. i just posted it to have some sort of reference that could lead to some sort of conclusions. but these are not mine to make 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinnart Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Trees can't be knocked down since there is an abstraction to the terrain just as CMx1. I would much rather have abstract terrain than seeing trees go down. even though one can layer terrain in CMx2 I still prefer Cmx1's simple, definitive approach where the cursor would tell what type it was. I keep getting stuck in the mud! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetori Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I don't think so, take a look at the video that is posted above. The Leo 1 goes fine through trees (saplings really) that are about 100mm or less in diameter. Most of what it is cruising through are just young pines but see the problem it has when it crashes into the creek bed. Also have a look at 2:20 which I would call a small tree and then at 3:30 at a medium tree and see the drama the tank has. Again at 4:30 on see the trouble it has with scattered light timber and again at 10:00 in the thicker forest with still quite small trees. Tank hates trees at the best of times, no chance in a mature hardwood forest. I can only speak of my own experience but the trees in the forest are not in themselves the main issue, the ground conditions are. A relatively flat forest with pine-trees were easily traversed with Leos and IFVs with a couple of broken trees as a result. Though as I mentioned earlier it's not a good idea. During an exercise I once saw a Leo2 crew try to run down a large oak? and got hanging at a 45-50 degree angle with no traction. The tree didn't even bend and they had to be towed (and missed the BatC briefing which was pretty hilarious when people learned the reason). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertram Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Circumference maybe, not diameter I don't agree you can see quite clearly that the tank I brought to a halt by the trees and it is not a lack of vision, you can see the tank straining against the resistance. Actually the correct term is Momentum The German speaking chap is talking about Durchmesser, which I would translate as diameter, but I could be wrong, it could be circumference. The Oak actually was 65 cm, not 75 cm (according to the commentator) - I didn't catch that correct the first time. He also states that trees this large should be viewed individually, as the root system will be the problem, the tank can hang on those, depending on how they are formed. You might not agree, I just translate what the commentator tells. Of course the commentator could be just talking nonsense, after all, it is a test of the Bundeswehr, not generally a reliable source of information about tanks and so on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chainsaw Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 How many of you have ever had to pull track? Me! And as mentioned earlier. Tanks CAN do stuff. but just because you can doesn't mean you should. In the beginning of my APC training we thrown tracks as hell because whenever we got a chance we drove like madmen. Then we learnt we had to pull tracks and recover vehicles all the bloody time, often in ****ty situations and weather conditions so we stopped driving like madman's. And sure its cool kicking down a tree. but what if you get stuck or looses a track in the progress and then the enemy comes and nails you. You want to hump back to own line and tell your CO you lost your tank because you drove over a tree with purpose? Naah... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertram Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 One of the coolest things with tanks was making a hasty hull down position.... needed are a brick road (which were plenty in Germany where the Dutch army trained then) and good brakes on a tank. A bit of speed, locking the brakes - the road surface would stay intact under the tank, sliding along with the tank. The road in front would pile up: impromptu brick pile and hull down position. There was an engineer section traveling behind the trainings excercises to mend roads, fences and hurt feelings . Of course this was when the Germans still expected to see the Red Army come visiting any day, so they were a bit more accommodating then they would be now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadekster88 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Me! And as mentioned earlier. Tanks CAN do stuff. but just because you can doesn't mean you should. In the beginning of my APC training we thrown tracks as hell because whenever we got a chance we drove like madmen. Then we learnt we had to pull tracks and recover vehicles all the bloody time, often in ****ty situations and weather conditions so we stopped driving like madman's. And sure its cool kicking down a tree. but what if you get stuck or looses a track in the progress and then the enemy comes and nails you. You want to hump back to own line and tell your CO you lost your tank because you drove over a tree with purpose? Naah... Exactly. You don't even have to get hung up or throw a track either. Sooner or later you'll be in the motor pool and you'll be doing your walk around and at that point you'll notice about 3 links in a row that are all bent the F up from hitting a damn rock just right and you now have to pull out your kit to replace them. Let the fun start. Oh... and if you're lucky you're in the motor pool when you notice. Once again in combat you're not worried about maintance and what you'll have to fix but if you don't need to drive like that in the first place why in the world would you go about creating extra work for yourself?! You take care of your horse, your horse will take care of you...driving your horse through a forest is not gonna make your horse happy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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