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Hey I was watching the tanks...


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Tanks are much more fragile than they would first appear. Grinding brush and tree branches into one's treads would probably be a way for the driver to really anger the rest of the crew, as they pry all the crud from the thrown track. ;) Also why just Leroying into a house with a tank was contra-indicated for most sane crews.

I am assuming there will be a quite satisfactory sound effect as our pixelpanzers grind through the underbrush. If not, one could reasonably expect a mod soon™.

They DO knock down fences. Not sure how much in the way of perma-tracks they leave in other terrain types yet.

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Trees are strong too, I have seen many a Caterpillar D10 have a world of trouble with a tree of even a modest size.

Yeah. I think all the movie scenes of tanks mowing down saplings has really ruined people's expectations. A decent size tree is very, very tough to knock down (unless it's rotted or the ground is completely saturated). A car going 60+ mph and hitting a big tree will come to a dead stop instantly. That's a hell of a lot more force than even a heavy tank hitting at a few miles per hour. Heck, even going through bocage was too much for tanks without welding on special equipment.

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The problem is the roots, it is highly unlikely you would sever a tree trunk so more likely you will push it over if it is a small one or come to a screaming halt if it is a big one.

If you do push it over then you have this huge root ball underneath the tank which can easily lift a tank off the ground it only takes a little bit of a lift to lower the ground pressure to the point where you have no traction.

-oh- I am a tree grog -oh-

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Yeah. I think all the movie scenes of tanks mowing down saplings has really ruined people's expectations. A decent size tree is very, very tough to knock down (unless it's rotted or the ground is completely saturated). A car going 60+ mph and hitting a big tree will come to a dead stop instantly. That's a hell of a lot more force than even a heavy tank hitting at a few miles per hour. Heck, even going through bocage was too much for tanks without welding on special equipment.

Most modern tanks (and even a lot of the AFVs) doesn't have much issues with trees (although I've seen a funny encounter between a Leo2 and an Oak).

Though mowing down trees is a bit stupid if you can avoid it.

Sometimes they break and fall "backwards" which might damage equipment on the vehicle (like MGs, sights, antennas and similar), especially if you're going a bit faster. In order to minimize the risk of gyro and main cannon you have to traverse the turret to an aft position which is not something you want to do during combat anyhow (a larger tree falling on top of the barrel will break stuff).

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Most modern tanks (and even a lot of the AFVs) doesn't have much issues with trees (although I've seen a funny encounter between a Leo2 and an Oak).

I don't think so, take a look at the video that is posted above. The Leo 1 goes fine through trees (saplings really) that are about 100mm or less in diameter. Most of what it is cruising through are just young pines but see the problem it has when it crashes into the creek bed. Also have a look at 2:20 which I would call a small tree and then at 3:30 at a medium tree and see the drama the tank has. Again at 4:30 on see the trouble it has with scattered light timber and again at 10:00 in the thicker forest with still quite small trees.

Tank hates trees at the best of times, no chance in a mature hardwood forest.

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The French seem to me to be very good at planting trees at a distance to make for straighter growth and easier logging. So people who see woods that are full of snaggled up trees should think about when wood was used for sabots [for the feet : )], fuel, chemical processes, kitchenware, furniture, etc. And leaving pigs into feed.

I have no doubt that one could find tangled woods but my suspicion is that it is function of human density and terrain. Tanks are roughly 10 ft across which is a very close spacing in tree terms. Excluding things like hazel woods which would have stumps probably that close.

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A car going 60+ mph and hitting a big tree will come to a dead stop instantly. That's a hell of a lot more force than even a heavy tank hitting at a few miles per hour.

The proper physical term here is not force but impetus and your statement is unfortunately not correct.

The impetus I is the product of velocity,v and mass, m: I = v *m.

Hence the impetus of a medium sized (1500 kg) car travelling at 60 mph (27 mps) is 1500 * 27 = 40.5 kgm/s whereas the impetus of a Sherman tank (30300 kg) travelling at 3 mph (1.3 mps) is 30300*1.3 =39390 kgm/s which is about the same as the car.

A Panther tank at some 44800 kg travelling at the same speed has an impetus of 44800 * 1.3 = 58240 kgm/s i.e. 1,5 times the impetus of the car.

A heavy tank like a Tiger would offset the score even more.

Another thing to take into consideration in this case is the fact that a car is constructed to deform on impact, absorbing the energy from the collision with the tree, whereas a tank is built with the absolute opposite idea - not to budge, thus being able to transfer the energy of the collision into the tree.

This being said I can't tell how easy or what size of trees would be mowed down by a medium or a heavy tank since there are so many other factors to consider in the equation (disregarding track breakage, the risk of getting stuck/bogging etc).

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Any smart driver or more correctly any smart tank or apc commander is gonna avoid anything that is either gonna get his track damaged or stuck on something and high centering your track on a tree is easy enough to do. Running flat out through a forest of saplings is also a bad idea due to limited LOS, although it does look impressive. Tanks and apc's don't handle very well at high speed even in the best of terrain and even then if your track isn't adjusted right you can still throw it. So while mowing down saplings is easy a good sized rock hidden in brush is gonna ruin your day. How many of you have ever had to pull track? It's backbreaking work and as a result driving in a haphazard manner is to be avoided. In combat...sure, I mean it's that or maybe die but you'd try to avoid placing yourself in that situation in the first place. Just my 2.

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I don't think so, take a look at the video that is posted above. The Leo 1 goes fine through trees (saplings really) that are about 100mm or less in diameter. Most of what it is cruising through are just young pines but see the problem it has when it crashes into the creek bed. Also have a look at 2:20 which I would call a small tree and then at 3:30 at a medium tree and see the drama the tank has. Again at 4:30 on see the trouble it has with scattered light timber and again at 10:00 in the thicker forest with still quite small trees.

Tank hates trees at the best of times, no chance in a mature hardwood forest.

The chap talking in German in the background is saying those are 32 cm (320 mm) in diameter. not really saplings anymore.... What you call a medium tree, they call a 75 cm diameter oak.

Comment at 4:30 is that the view of the Panzercrew is occasionally blocked by the falling treecrowns, but is not otherwise slowed down. Only if the tree's fall in a way that the crowns lock together they might withstand the Panzer, and it has to take an other route.

At 9:00: the combination of a 38 degree slope with 30 cm tree's does stop the Panzer, as the track start to slip, and even a slight sideways movement can detrack it.

At 10:00 minutes: dense trees of about 5 to 31 cm diameter and a 5 to 12 degree slope does not slow the Panzer down, it has to stop occasionally because the falling branches and leaves obscure the vision of the crew.

Of course this is a Leopard I, stronger engine, better transmission and tracks then anything available in WW2.

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I read many years ago a book where a crewman was describing the dangers of attacking a hedge with a Cuilin plow. The tank stopping dead forks embedded , the shock to tanks and crew. Bouncing off if not square too, Dangers of doing on a side slope, and in damp conditions just the tracks not gripping well. I do long to find that book and be able to quote it verbatim ... page number and title : )

Ramming things is not good. I tis weell-documnted where two Tigers went over a railway embanjkment for an attack and damaged their guns and had to be hauled back .... meaning the other Tigers were involved in saving the sorry mess. Italy.

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those are 32 cm (320 mm) in diameter. What you call a medium tree, they call a 75 cm diameter oak.

Comment at 4:30 is that the view of the Panzercrew is occasionally blocked by the falling treecrowns, but is not otherwise slowed down.

At 9:00: the combination of a 38 degree slope with 30 cm tree's does stop the Panzer, as the track start to slip, and even a slight sideways movement can detrack it.

At 10:00 minutes: dense trees stop occasionally because the falling branches and leaves obscure the vision of the crew.

Circumference maybe, not diameter

I don't agree you can see quite clearly that the tank I brought to a halt by the trees and it is not a lack of vision, you can see the tank straining against the resistance.

The proper physical term here is not force but impetus

Actually the correct term is Momentum

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