Waycool Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 German side, you think the same thing in CMBB but when you see a Russian KV. My question is: Is there any allied tank (in CMBN) who produce this psychological effect on german troops? Thanks and great job. I thought the Jabos were the stuff of dread for the Jerries, They feared this above all the Tommy Cooker was not feared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyBucket Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I think saying the Sherman wasn't feared by German troops is perplexing. It's relatively easy to proclaim them laughable compared to the Panther or what have you from the safe distance of more than half a century and the comfort of your home, but I'm sure the troops who were on the receiving end of the things were plenty scared. The GIs complained about the "unstoppable" German tanks, and I'm sure the Germans were equally bitter about the endless supply of Shermans they had to contend with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAFU Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 i see, so because he could see quite far from his positions upto the german likely entrance point. Then the attacker would have got a fair bit info straight away about his positions? So if i was to place my infantry quite far back from the trees, then there is a possiblity that i could race back in to that tree line with little or no casualties. Hi para-- This is a good place to ask tactics questions but you might get better responses when more people have the sim on their computers. (on the other hand--everyone might be playing instead of posting when that happens). As far as tactics: It was common practice for a unit to deploy in a triangle type formation ie--for a platoon, 2 squads would be forward and on behind them in support. That offered some flexibilty to move the "back" squad to fill gaps or respond as needed as the situation unfolded. Heavy weapons attached to the platoon would be placed to their best advantage for support. How this was done depended upon the tactical situation. The same rule applies to Company level as well--2 companies forward and 1 back supporting the others with heavy weapons elements deployed as per the situation. Does this work in CM? Well--in my experience, it can be very effective. When one of my squads gets beat up I can move the fresh reserve one in to bolster it or even cover its withdrawl. Sometimes the arrival of a fresh unit on the line creates a tipping point for the opposing force, especially if they have all troops committed on the line. In that case, the fresh unit can often take advantage of the fatigue and "stress" that your enemy is under. (But it doesn't always work )! As far as your original question: Your idea about deploying your units behind the tree line and then moving them up can work both ways. Tyrspawn had no way of knowing for sure that that tree line was going to be shelled. In fact, it seems he didn't expect it. If it hadn't happened that way, his troops would have been in a great position to repulse the attack made on them. BUT--if the barrage hadn't occurred and he still had to move his troops forward, they would have been more vulnerable because the Germans would have been able to fire at them while they were moving. So it's really a trade off--calculated guesses, opposing force composition, Artillery Support? Unknown until the battle commences. Sometimes you guess right and sometimes you guess wrong. And then there is the other huge factor in play-LUCK. Sometimes the perfect setup/tactic is undone by one lucky shot. All said, there is no single tactic that works all the time. You have to learn what works best "for you"--creating your own style can pay dividends when you play head-to-head. Sometimes the "wrong" initial setup is what tips a battle to your advantage because it wasn't expected by your opponent... I still like the 2 forward/1 back when I can do it though. There's a reason that doctrine has been embraced by the military. Cheers! SNAFU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waycool Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Agree when a tank is on the battlefield and you the opfor have zero or limited AT capability "any" armour is a concern. The Allies never fielded a tank with the rep that is attached to the German heavies.Tiger, 88, Nebelwerfer were feared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Schultz Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 If what I am reading is so in regards to pre-spotting of visible units after setup but before start is true, then I may have a suggestion for why Tyr got pasted on his right by the prep fire. There were units too far forward. 1. Foxholes in CM1 were visible before the occupying troops were visible.(assumption that they still are) 2. Units in trees had to be a certain number of meters back before gaining much in the way of concealment. 3. The units did not BEGIN the battle hiding. This should in NO WAY be seen as a critique of the man who is giving us tasty eye treats. I saw the way he was burning through setup to give us a reasonably concise show, and there were many incredible things to see. My personal CM1 setup method for any unit in trees is to push it back until it cannot see out... then move it forward just a few meters. I want the darkest blue line I can get without it turning red. I am assuming there is a new tile arrangement that may alter this method in the CM2 engine, since i kept seeing little squares light up during setup. Before saving my file at setup, I always, always, always grab every unit for the great group hide command. When the battle starts.... THEN I unhide only the relevant units. Every unit needs a covered arc, but that is just not going to happen in realtime play. ----- Great work on the videos. Thank you. ---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Just finished recording the WeGo vid, will encode overnight and hopefully have it ready for tomorrow. It's the most intense video so far. Great man, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Thanks for the informative replies SNAFU & Sgt Schultz :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAFU Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Thanks for the informative replies SNAFU & Sgt Schultz :-) You're welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Can you answer this..where are BF based? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAFU Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Can you answer this..where are BF based? If I told you they'd ban me from the forum. (transalation: I don't know but I bet its a dark and dreary place) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
para Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 If I told you they'd ban me from the forum. (transalation: I don't know but I bet its a dark and dreary place) I'm only interested so that i can work out what date it is and if it is night or day there.I'm guessing the US but East Or West???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivodsi Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I have a question about the devastating opening barrage on the Ami's foxholed soldiers amongst the trees on the right flank. TyrSpawn mentioned that the defender always sets up first, leaving the attacker a some idea of the defensive setup. I'm guessing that this means that the foxholes are noticeable, and probably attracted the barrage. So, it looks like the way to beat this would be to put in a line of foxholes, but deploy most your men further back, out of range of the incoming that would be focused on the foxholes. You would only have a couple of teams in the foxholes to begin with, just to keep an eye on things. Of course, there's not much that can be done for the AT guns because it would take them too long to bring up and deploy after the barrage, but at least you would avoid losing the bulk of your forces. Does this sound like an effective counter to deadly AI barrages? Not entirely unrealistic too, I might add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Schultz Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Your quite welcome Para. It is starting to come back to me the more I delve into the forums and my old CMBB maps and scenarios. I agree completely on the 2 up, 1 back tactic as well. It is how I play at every level from fire team to Battalion. You want fresh reserves, not scraped-up leavings and rattled ammo bearers. Since this was a defensive battle, here is my personal thoughts on possible improvements. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that. Again, no judgement on our esteemed host should be implied. I am WEGO, and he is RT. he knows better how it goes in that world. He also made the brave choice of no armor. Mobile A/T assets. In any defensive battle, one may wish for a "fire brigade" unit that can help, then move quickly to help somewhere else. In the WWII world we all about to embark(or re-embark) on, this means a high-velocity 75mm gun carried by a tracked vehicle. Even if it is a single tank, it can make the difference. Use all your assets. If you get a truck, keep it somewhere out of sight, but close enough for transport and ammo supply duties. Artillery has been and always will be the sharpest teeth of any military formation. Buy the best you can possibly squeeze into your budget. I would personally rather have a dozen well-aimed rounds of 120mm mortar fire than another platoon. Kill the enemy's morale before he even gets close and the battle is half-won. Look for and exploit keyholes. That wonderful LOS that goes past trees and between two buildings to the most likely entrance to the objective. Find a way to make the enemy stop/slow there so the long-range asset can take the shot. Wire FTW. Recon. Each flank gets a dedicated(read stupid) "volunteer" to go out and look ahead of the lines. Dash to closest cover and hide, then back up and look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoolaman Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 The way support fire worked in CMSF AI there was a handful of possible first-turn bombardment locations pre-registered, so that opening barrage on the treeline may just be purely speculative. I'd certainly have lobbed some arty there, its a very dominating terrain feature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAEZ Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Just finished recording the WeGo vid, will encode overnight and hopefully have it ready for tomorrow. It's the most intense video so far. Wow looking foward to this Thank you very much !!1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAFU Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 The way support fire worked in CMSF AI there was a handful of possible first-turn bombardment locations pre-registered, so that opening barrage on the treeline may just be purely speculative. I'd certainly have lobbed some arty there, its a very dominating terrain feature. I agree completely. If that was a 2 player scenario and I was the German there's a real good chance I would have shelled that tree line before advancing. Of course, if that had been the case, my opponent probably wouldn't have been deployed there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnersman Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Thanks tyrspawn! I'm looking forward to another video. I hope it's another QB. I dont want to see another scenario map and ruin it for me. On another note, I did hear the Garand *ping*. I wasn't listening but I thought I heard it several times when Chris was zoomed in on the infantry. Although it is not loud like you hear in the movies. But it's definitely there. On another, another note, I didn't think the US had SINCGARS that early in the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillyPete2171 Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 It might be nice, but it wouldn't be authentic. MG42 gunners were specifically trained to fire in short bursts (hence the "burp" nickname), to conserve ammo, because the rate of fire of the MG42 was so fast that it devoured ammo. I used the MG 42 as an example. As a former US Marine, I'm fully aware of the reasons why you should fire off short controlled bursts from an automatic weapon. What's not realistic is the same exact burst over and over again from the various weapons in CMBN. All I am asking for is a little variety. Can this be moded? By the way, the "burp" nickname is usually associated with the MP40, not the "ripping" sound of the Hitler-saw MG42. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenxen Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I noticed that you were moving the pointer down to the delete button when you were buying your units to remove the ones you did not want, can you also use the del button instead, it could be annoying to do with the mouse in the editor in sf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 *standing* Hi my name is sburke and I am a Chris "Tyrspawn" Krause fanboy. I think I started viewing AAR videos just a few days ago and I am now hooked. I can't seem to spend more than a few minutes away from my computer. Any announcement that another video is going to be posted causes these inexplicable feelings of joy. My family and work life are suffering but I can't seem to find any reason to care. I believe my only chance at a cure is for BFC to release CMBN, but I suspect that is only replacing one addiction with another. Oh and thanks Chris, you're a great guy even if you are my "pusher man". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnersman Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 *standing* Hi my name is sburke and I am a Chris "Tyrspawn" Krause fanboy. I think I started viewing AAR videos just a few days ago and I am now hooked. I can't seem to spend more than a few minutes away from my computer. Any announcement that another video is going to be posted causes these inexplicable feelings of joy. My family and work life are suffering but I can't seem to find any reason to care. I believe my only chance at a cure is for BFC to release CMBN, but I suspect that is only replacing one addiction with another. Oh and thanks Chris, you're a great guy even if you are my "pusher man". Hiiiiiiii sbuuuurrrrke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 I finally got a chance to watch it. Wow... someone in the previous AAR video thread said artillery didn't seem to be that impressive. I wonder how that person would have reacted if he were sitting in Chris' foxhole line in the trees off to the right flank. OUCH! Those guys got nailed. For me it was interesting to see the slow whittling away of Chris' forces by the relentless German assaults. They took heavy casualties, for sure, but they managed to push across some pretty open terrain against a well fortified enemy. Oh, and there was a great "Relative Spotting" moment in there. Chris had his 57mm AT Gun with a Cover Arc and before his AT crew managed to spot and acquire the Tiger, it was out of their LOS/LOF (pretty broken up terrain). In the old CM games the AT Gun would likely have taken at least one shot because it would have been instantly aware of it before it even entered into view of the AT crew. The battle got pretty noisy there at the end, didn't it? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAFU Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 It was a good fight and Very Loud considering I was at work! (self-employed, thank heavens). If I'd of been playing the Germans, I would taken far heavier casualties though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manx Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Thanks for taking the time to make these videos Chris. Waiting for CMBN to be released feels exactly like it did waiting for CMBO all those years ago...absolute torture! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad Harrison Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Just finished recording the WeGo vid, will encode overnight and hopefully have it ready for tomorrow. It's the most intense video so far. Thanks for yet another Chris. Any details on what this one will be? Personally I think QB's are the best because its not giving away any scenarios, and based on the last one, they can be just as exciting, if not more! Thanks Chad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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