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Research and developpment, big problem

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I think that the Research and developpment suffer a large problem.

For discovering a next level you need, first one, invest MPP,

second, you need chance.

Chance is the problem.

I played a multiplayer game, as allies, i have to stop it after the fall of Moscow, december 1943.

Germans have Tank level 5 since.... 1942. They have fighters level 3.

In the same time, soviet tanks stay level 2, since 1939.

USA, with their 1350 MMP invested in Research and developpment, have in december 1943 :

Infantry, (anti infantry weapons, anti tanks weapons ) level 0

Motorization : level 0

Tanks : level zero

Fighters : level 1

Never techs were launched. The US army was the 1917 sherman's expeditionnary corps in decembrer 1943.

Soviets army fight with sticks and stones.

Every attacks of a german tank gives a soviet army destroyed = 4 or 5 soviets army destroyed per turn.

I think that the chance condition in order to have a next level is a bad idea. Money and delay suffice.

I was only a Punching bag for my opponent since 1939, not very enjoyed by my game.


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I easily recognize a large element of luck on my side. This level 5 in the tanks a few turns after the level 4 was totally unexpected. I invested 2 chits to reach level 4 and the last chit gave me level 5 five turns after level 4.

With these monster i was able to unlock the whole northern/center front center and take Leningrad, Voronezh and Moscow. Very hard for my game partner.

Luck is part of the battle and my opponent seemed very unlucky with the US/Soviet tech discoveries.


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I think it should be possible to rise "catch up" over the time. That means if you can't get a research level for several month/turns the % chance has to rise. I recognize that some players could reach Level 5 tanks in there game. I never got this in all my games even my chits were always high.

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I suggest now 6 interesting tables, about the R&D for all countries. It's the last 57st turn of the game.

Remember that when you have a full budget and no tech discovered, you cannot invest more MPP. By exemple, R&D US budget was full all long the game (1325MPP) and Soviet Union too (600 MPP).

1st: China. Not very important because China become quickly out of game. For information, China discovered 4 levels techs : 2 in infantry weapons, 2 in antiaircrafts guns. Forget China. (Edit : cannot post the screenshot of China, because Battlefront website rules, max 5 screenshots)

2nd: UK. 1325 MPP spent, 12x100 and 1x125 levels techs discovered. UK was not all long the time with the R&D budget max, because UK need to renforce their ships and planes hits by U-Boots or germans planes, and defense of Egypt needs MPP too.


3rd : USA. The worst. Only 2350 MPP spent, 11x100 and 10x125. 21 levels discovered. Average= 41 MPP per turn, = (41/1325)=3% of the budget max.


4st SU. 975 MPP spent, 6x100 and 3x125. Average per turn = 975/57=17, 2,8% of budget max.


5st, Germany. 3725 MPP spent, 21x100 and 13x125. Average/turn=65, 8,7% of the budget max.


6st, Japan.2600MPP spent (more than USA ! ) , 21x100 and 4x125. Average/turn=46, 7% of the budget max.


During 57 turns, Axis discovered 59 techs levels, Allies 43. But 43 for 3 countries (average 14,3) Axis 59 for only two (average 29,5).

In this conditions, the game becomes more and more unbalanced.

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When I look at these poor research results I am let to believe that Germany has been heavily investing in intelligence at the start, while you were not. Intelligence increases the chance of researching technologies by 1% per chit. It also reduces the odds your enemy researches technology. Without it, it is almost impossible to research technologies up to level 5, so he must have had that in order to reach such high tech levels. That implies that he slowed down your research and is thus an explanation for why you didn't get a lot of technology.

I am not saying that you weren't unlucky this game, but I do think that things might have gone differently if you had invested more in intelligence at the start.

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Yes it does. After discussion with Boudi it appears he was unaware that one could recover chit invested in a technology already in maximum. So his search was not optimal.

We start again a game with switch in camp.

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This issue has been discussed time and time again. Here is my contribution:


And mine: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=65151&highlight=tech It's been 5 years since I wrote that?

Hubert is well aware of the limitations; I was hoping it would make it into WWI, but apparently whole sections of code other than the tech module would have to be severely revamped, which is why we still have the original SC2 one (WAG).

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How does one "mod" the research system into something like what I posted to radically reduced the element of chance? Screenshots would be helpful.

What some people have done has been to increase the MPP cost of research, while at the same time increasing the chance of a hit.

An example of this is the Battle for Russia campaign that came out with the Weapons and Warfare expansion pack - most research cost 1,000 MPPs!

While you might not want to set the price quite as high (although it worked in that campaign) here's what you would need to do:

Open up the relevant campaign in the editor.

If it's a default campaign, select File; Save As and give it a new name (saving it may take some minutes).

Now click on:


Edit Country Data

Edit Research (near the bottom of the screen that pops up)

In what has popped up you can now amend the cost for all types of research, for all countries. You only need to change the price for Majors.

You can also amend here the maximum levels that can be researched, and the maximum number of chits that can be invested.

If you click on Advanced, on the screen that has now popped up, on the right hand side is shown the Research Progression (per chit).

Increasing the percentages will increase the chance, and you will need to do this for all the Majors that are listed on the left hand side. Hopefully coupled perhaps with a price increase you should be able to find some research settings that suit.

Then when done hit Ok a few times and then save. You should now be ready to play the modified campaign!


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  • 4 weeks later...

Just one another question, please.

The manual explain how Intelligence works with the recherh formula

modified research formula, using the enemy research bonus and intelligence modifier:

"The enemy intelligence modifier". Ok, but wich ennemy ?

By exemple, if UK has 0 level in intelligence and USA has 3 in 1942 (both are in war against Japan) wich penalty will be applied to Japan in the formula ??? 0 ? 3 ?

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