Barleyman Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 I actually came here to check out what you guys are saying of the new game, WRT if any of the truly crippling problems with TOW2 were fixed. There's no real discussion about it, thought. With my limited playtime with TOW2 I can identify following: 1. Squad controls suck. It's like CMSF "we will not do OOB list gui" except even worse. 2. Maps suck. Designers think it's fun to attack against entrenched enemy with less forces, every time. Difficulty comes from having to face superior number of AT guns in trenches, which leads us to 3. There are no forward observers or spotting. You're facing piles of AT guns and have NO WAY to take them out with mortars without direct line from the mortar to the gun, which is suicide. 4. You can see trenches right from the start. Nice? More RTS than IRL for sure and doesn't help you cope with numerical superiority of enemy due to 3. If 2. was better, maybe TOW2 could still be entertaining in MOW style but now it's just frustrating with bad RTS conventions mixed with pretty faithful vehicle modeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GI Jas Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 I agree some. I think in wwII especially on the eastern front entrenched armies were common hence wwI but in the korean war more mobile especially north korean forces. sadly though after the initial offensives and counter offensives there was a stalemate and basically trench warfare came back. at guns are also more common in wwII, as a defense against tank attacks so there is no way to not include them. but this game should give more freedom and options for attack or denfense hopefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barleyman Posted March 3, 2011 Author Share Posted March 3, 2011 AT guns are/were fine in CMBB, thought, because you had several ways to deal with them - Humble 81mm mortar team can take AT gun out, which is not happening in TOW because you cannot have spotter keeping a low profile and the mortars behind in a defilade. Try to use mortars against AT guns in TOW and they'll fire only with direct LOS, which will naturally give the AT gun(s) advantage as they can fire back with greater accuracy.. Similarly using MGs teams to suppress the guns does not work like it should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneaksie Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 You don't need LOS to fire a mortar, but they are way more accurate if they see the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemonade Posted March 3, 2011 Share Posted March 3, 2011 You don't need LOS to fire a mortar, but they are way more accurate if they see the target. That's absolutely right. I've never had trouble with that. I would like to ask you a question though, Sneaksie. When an enemy unit is spotted by infantry, does maintaining this infantry-enemy LOS influence accuracy of indirect fire of artillery units (which don't have LOS to that hostile unit) when they indirectly fires upon it? In other words, does any unit can act as an arty spotter? Sometimes I have this feeling that it does. For example - German Novoselovka mission. I tried to knock out forward Russian ATGs with my IGs by firing several indirect rounds, with poor result. But when I pulled a sniper who then spotted the cannons, as long as he kept them in his sight, artillery shells kept hitting the area I wanted. Thus my guns very quickly destroyed enemy gun crews. Could you clarify that for me please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barleyman Posted March 4, 2011 Author Share Posted March 4, 2011 You don't need LOS to fire a mortar, but they are way more accurate if they see the target. Yeah. And the problem is you cannot have another unit act as a spotter. Mortar firing with LOS to enemy is fairly easily spotted.. Forward observer or mortar team officer guiding fire and keeping low profile is not. The way it worked in Combat Mission Barbarossa to Berlin was perfect for on-map and off-map artillery. The problem is compounded by the fact you cannot call in smoke from off-board artillery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcelt Posted March 4, 2011 Share Posted March 4, 2011 In Kursk/Caen my experience has been that having an enemy unit in line of sight of advancing infantry enables accurate attack by friendly mortars in hidden locations with no line of sight of those enemy units . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barleyman Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 In Kursk/Caen my experience has been that having an enemy unit in line of sight of advancing infantry enables accurate attack by friendly mortars in hidden locations with no line of sight of those enemy units . Does that really work? At least there's no such mechanism according to the manual.. Does this apply to infantry mortars only or also the mortar carriers? Is there a proximity requirement by the infantry to the mortar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcelt Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 My recent experience has largely been with "simple editor" created battles (Kursk with Caen add-on) and fighting on Kursk maps with "hidden" German infantry mortars in support of infantry units. I found no particular manual reference for this apparent "spotting" mechanism but after experimenting ,found that this effect seemed to apply consistently as and when infantry units came close enough to view enemy units. Targetting ground fire by mortars then, seemed to produce quite accurate grouping of explosions on the enemy positions from mortar fire. I have not so far employed the mortar carriers in these battles so can make no comment re those units Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcelt Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 I have also just tested on a Caen battlefield with British 3"mortar in hidden position successfully attacking German MG positions which were in sight of advancing British infantry squads. In my experience (at least with "Simple Editor" created small scale --platoon--reinforced Company sized battles which I really enjoy and prefer with this engine ) I have found that this role of the hidden mortar support with infantry squad "spotting"to be quite effective. NB I actually later lost my 3"Mortar to a Germany infantry squad which infiltrated through my advancing units----may need to allocate some infantry protection to my Mortars in the rear in future............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum50 Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 My quick two cents on Korea... The series gets better and better each time... Alot has been fixed and/or improved, while a couple of problems still exist, but nothing major. The maps, IMO, are absolutely beutiful... and the battles more intense with incredible artillery support and air support. I'm in the process of playing and reviewing it right now for SimHQ... but I put up some screens from the tutorial just to get readers blood going: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3228648/ToW3_Korea_Tutorial_Mission.html#Post3228648 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMG Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 That's a lot of shots. Thanks for posting the link and doing the shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_solomon Posted March 9, 2011 Share Posted March 9, 2011 My quick two cents on Korea... The series gets better and better each time... Alot has been fixed and/or improved, while a couple of problems still exist, but nothing major. The maps, IMO, are absolutely beutiful... and the battles more intense with incredible artillery support and air support. I'm in the process of playing and reviewing it right now for SimHQ... but I put up some screens from the tutorial just to get readers blood going: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3228648/ToW3_Korea_Tutorial_Mission.html#Post3228648 finally we are getting somewhere now. what are you thoughts on the new infantry gameplay. we were told they now operate as a squad now. when will we see some gameplay video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum50 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 True... as a squad or individual...your choice... but hard to show in the below video due to framerates while recording and being so far away. Per a PM request a short video of gameplay... understand that this video is not a true representation of the gameplay due to a framerate of about 5 while recording, so hard to give orders and move around under those conditions. But here is part of the 2nd mission of the North Korean campaign...capturing an airfield: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCx_8bIiE6s&hd=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General_solomon Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 ok, just watched your video. I have to agree with you, this is a beautiful game. the Korean country side is amazing. I also noticed that the guns are not deadly accurate. there was a moment where a tank machine gun was firing from a close distance and the three units managed to escape. much appreciated mag. looking forward to more gameplay if you have an opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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