Minotaur Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 I bought 5 games total from Battlefront.com: -Tac Ops 4 -Combat Mission Beyond Overlord -Strategic Command No problems installing these games (of course, some are now obsolete and incompatible with Vista...) Now the 2 games using eLicence: - Strategic Command 2 Blitzkrieg At the time, I used XP and the game installed without problem. But later I got a new Vista PC. I tried to install SC2 on it, but to no avail. And eLicence managed to corrupt Vista!!! I had to call Microsoft for support... - Strategic Command Global Conflict Successful installation, but when I clicked the Shortcut of the game, nothing happens... I had to go to the troubleshooting to find that it was the fault of the clumsy eLicence (RunService.exe in DEP, dx7vb.dll, etc...) I hesitate buying SC2 Global Conflict because of my bad experience with SC2 Blitzkrieg, but I told myself that a lot of time has passed, and it was very unlikely that I'll have that kind of trouble again, but I did... Although the game is now working. But what will happen when a new OS will be released? Point is, from my point of view, eLicence is more trouble (now and for the future) than worth and I'll won't buy any more games that use it... I sincerely hope Battlefont.com will found something more reliable in the future... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Unlicense on the PCs you dont want it on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 - Strategic Command 2 Blitzkrieg At the time, I used XP and the game installed without problem. But later I got a new Vista PC. I tried to install SC2 on it, but to no avail. And eLicence managed to corrupt Vista!!! I had to call Microsoft for support... Heh... eLicense cannot corrupt Vista. Vista can corrupt Vista The only thing you ened to do usually in order to run eLicense on Vista is to make sure that you launch and install the game with full administrator rights, due to the Windows User Account Control. That's it. - Strategic Command Global Conflict Successful installation, but when I clicked the Shortcut of the game, nothing happens... I had to go to the troubleshooting to find that it was the fault of the clumsy eLicence (RunService.exe in DEP, dx7vb.dll, etc...) No, the fault is in Windows' clumsy User Account Control It is block the execution of the encrypted eLicense software because it doesn't know what it is (well, it's encrypted). Having said that, Strategic Command World War 1 The Great War will indeed be using a (slightly) different DRM, and I think you'll find the changes very positive, especially for computers running Vista or Win7 with UAC on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minotaur Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 Heh... eLicense cannot corrupt Vista. Vista can corrupt Vista The only thing you ened to do usually in order to run eLicense on Vista is to make sure that you launch and install the game with full administrator rights, due to the Windows User Account Control. That's it.. True that Vista is good at corrupting itself (especially the registry), but in the eLicence case, to make a short story, everytime I tried to create a shortcut I got an Explorer error popup (check web or close program). I gave Microsoft technician access to my PC. He found traces of eLicence, remove it, solving the problem: I was able to create shortcuts again... No, the fault is in Windows' clumsy User Account Control It is block the execution of the encrypted eLicense software because it doesn't know what it is (well, it's encrypted). Fine, put the blame on the UAC, but answer this: Why I have no problems installing programs from Steam or another wargame online company? No need to play around UAC or such... No asking my admin authorisation each time I click the SCGC shortcut... No fuss from download to clicking the shortcut and play... Seems their DRM can handle UAC or any Vista clumsiness without problems... I'm not too bad with PC, so finding, reading and understanding troubleshooting is usually not beyond my abilities, but for one of my friend, it's too much to ask (he still have difficulties to grasp the concept that deleting a shortcut do not uninstall the program...). For him, installing a software, clicking a shortcut and nothing happens means 50$ down the drain... Until he think to ask me for help ;-) Having said that, Strategic Command World War 1 The Great War will indeed be using a (slightly) different DRM, and I think you'll find the changes very positive, especially for computers running Vista or Win7 with UAC on. Glad to hear you're, at least, trying to improve eLicense, but sorry, I still have doubt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minotaur Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 Unlicense on the PCs you dont want it on. ...But it seems 'Unlicensing' doesn't completely remove eLicense (from the control panel, for example...), as I painfully learned a few years ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minotaur Posted February 2, 2011 Author Share Posted February 2, 2011 Another Question about eLicense: What's the point of having a 'eLicense Control' icon in Control Panel if clicking on it do nothing? Leaving my mouse on the icon makes the message 'Show you information on the applications that are installled (yes, really 3 'L'...) on your machine.' But when double-clicking the icon, a small window appear then disappear in the same second. Same when Right-clicking then choosing 'Open'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 We have a Knowledgebase article on how to completely remove eLicense including the Control Center application: How can I completely remove the eLicense Control panel? True that Vista is good at corrupting itself (especially the registry), but in the eLicence case, to make a short story, everytime I tried to create a shortcut I got an Explorer error popup (check web or close program). I gave Microsoft technician access to my PC. He found traces of eLicence, remove it, solving the problem: I was able to create shortcuts again... There is nothing at all connecting eLicense to being able to make shortcuts in Microsoft, or Explorer, or anything of that sort. eLicense is a completely passive application (unlike most DRMs out there) What's the point of having a 'eLicense Control' icon in Control Panel if clicking on it do nothing? It doesn't do nothing. On most XP systems, it is giving you an overview of the eLicense apps on your PC. On Vista and above, UAC may be preventing this. There is no user functionality tied to it, though, that isn't available elsewhere, but the ControlCenter is (part of) the main eLicense app to manage your activations. Why I have no problems installing programs from Steam or another wargame online company? No need to play around UAC or such... UAC poses problems for applications that were coded before Microsoft introduced UAC. They tried to code some compatibility features into it, but they do not always work or work as intended. This isn't specific to eLicense or DRM as such, but includes legacy programs as well that are not coded specifically to be UAC compliant (which isn't possible if they were coded before UAC appeared). So, it's great that you didn't run into any problems yet. But they do exist aplenty. For example, if you're using anti-virus software and set it to heuristic scanning (aka "guessing" at anything unknown to them), you will have all sorts of issues with any protected game. You will also run into issues with many older games under Vista or Win 7 with UAC on. Even Steam has these issues - I know of cases where updating CIV IV via Steam is being blocked by AV programs. Glad to hear you're, at least, trying to improve eLicense, but sorry, I still have doubt... Not improving eLicense. We're introducing a new system for future releases. I don't know what there is to doubt about it, since you don't even know what we're going to do :confused: Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minotaur Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 We have a Knowledgebase article on how to completely remove eLicense including the Control Center application: How can I completely remove the eLicense Control panel? Downloaded and ready to use when needed... ;-) There is nothing at all connecting eLicense to being able to make shortcuts in Microsoft, or Explorer, or anything of that sort. eLicense is a completely passive application (unlike most DRMs out there) There's no point in arguing anymore about this one... Obviously, you don't believe me (dunno if it's personal or because it's bad for business, no matter...)... The E-mails exchanged between me and the MS tech are long gone and I didn't recorded the hour+ he controlled my PC to check my system and found the eLicense problem, so I have no hard proof to show you... It doesn't do nothing. On most XP systems, it is giving you an overview of the eLicense apps on your PC. On Vista and above, UAC may be preventing this. There is no user functionality tied to it, though, that isn't available elsewhere, but the ControlCenter is (part of) the main eLicense app to manage your activations. Adding a icon with no user functionality in the Control Panel, the spot you go when you want to configure your system?... Kinda weird... UAC poses problems for applications that were coded before Microsoft introduced UAC. They tried to code some compatibility features into it, but they do not always work or work as intended. This isn't specific to eLicense or DRM as such, but includes legacy programs as well that are not coded specifically to be UAC compliant (which isn't possible if they were coded before UAC appeared). Since, the problem with UAC seems well known, is there no way to make a patch for runservice.exe and/or any other eLicense files to solve this?... So, it's great that you didn't run into any problems yet. But they do exist aplenty. For example, if you're using anti-virus software and set it to heuristic scanning (aka "guessing" at anything unknown to them), you will have all sorts of issues with any protected game. You will also run into issues with many older games under Vista or Win 7 with UAC on. Even Steam has these issues - I know of cases where updating CIV IV via Steam is being blocked by AV programs. No arguing there. Norton is the worst offender, in my experience. I have McAfee and so far got only 2-3 troublesome cases, all legit files blocked as Trojan... I heard Kaprinsky is the most forgiving, but I didn't tried it... Not improving eLicense. We're introducing a new system for future releases. I don't know what there is to doubt about it, since you don't even know what we're going to do :confused: True, I don't know head from tail about programming a thing like eLicense... But put yourself in my shoes: Years ago I got serious problems when I installed SC2 on my new Vista PC. And now (few years later), I install SCGC to finds trouble again with Vista... Sorry, but there's matter for doubt here, from my point of view... Perhaps the improved eLicense will work fine now, but and if it does, will it still work fine when Microsoft will release a new update to it's UAC? or a new Service Pack for Vista or 7? or a new Windows?... Btw, thanks for taking the time to answer this post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I spend more on a tank of gas for my truck every third day, then I do on a computer game. Deal with it Minotaur. Blame software thieves for the inconviences. -Legend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Since, the problem with UAC seems well known, is there no way to make a patch for runservice.exe and/or any other eLicense files to solve this?... I can't speak for the eLicense people. However, we're not waiting for one Perhaps the improved eLicense will work fine now, but and if it does, will it still work fine when Microsoft will release a new update to it's UAC? or a new Service Pack for Vista or 7? or a new Windows?... Errr... obviously, the people you should ask is Microsoft. If they break compatibility with their new releases, and you use their new releases, then you have to go to their forum and ask them why they did it We cannot program for things that will happen in the future, sorry. BTW, we are not going to use "an improved eLicense". We are switching to a completely different DRM with this release. It is fully compliant with UAC, Vista, and Win 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjh1971 Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 BTW, we are not going to use "an improved eLicense". We are switching to a completely different DRM with this release. It is fully compliant with UAC, Vista, and Win 7. Moon can you spill the beans on this one? While I understand eLicense is probably the most secure DRM available, it also has its own inconviniencies for us players/users, for example you can't unlicense with you don't have internet conection, limiting the given licenses to only two imho are just to few, speaking for myself I have a pc in a village (no internet conection) in which I have all SC series but Pacific Theater installed and licensed, that's my first license, on my home pc I have the second license used, end of licenses, recently I bought a new HD and installed Win7 leaving Win XP, now if I wanted the game to run in Win 7 I would have to keep licensing and unlicensing each time I chose an OS. Another inconvinience is when you get a crash due to virus or hardware breakdown, and you lose your licenses, even when your support team works great, happened to me once and you restored my elicenses, nonetheless it's kind of annoying you have to explain what happened. So I would be most happy if you change to a DRM system like Matrix or Slitherine has 16 digit license that enables you to install the game in all your pc. Or if at least you would give three to five elicenses that would also make my day, the moment my son has his onw pc he will want all SC games installed in it, with the current system I would have either to unlicense from another pc or buy the games again, doesn't seem reasonable imho. Having said all this I will still buy SC WWI the moment is release no matter what DRM system you use Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Actually, you can already read up on the new licensing system when you check out the online SCWW1 manual. The manual contains information about how things will work (although the areas referenced in the manual are not yet actually active). From the player perspective, not much is changing. The biggest change I guess is that there will be no need to unlicense anymore (at all). Other changes include better UAC compatibility and probably less problems with anti-virus packages (although, to be honest, some of those out there are so crazy that they will probably cause you problems as soon as you switch on your PC I remember once NortonIS was so paranoid in its default install, it was blocking the Norton support pages where I wanted to find out how to friggin' uninstall it :-)) One thing won't change (and it is the same with pretty much every DRM out there, since it's the very purpose of a DRM): the licensing system is there precisely to limit the number of installs. When you buy a game, you are really buying a "license" to use it. You do not own the game, you own a license to run it. And the license is not open end, meaning that you usually only get 1 or 2 so-called "seats" with it. If you want more, you'll have to buy an additional license (we offer discounts for that if you ask). If you look at the End User License Agreement printed in the manual, you will see that we allow you to have one copy of the game installed and another copy as "backup". Now, obviously many people use this to have two copies of the game running at the same time, but that's ok. We're not enforcing the backup part. The new licensing system will achieve the same end effect, but it's even less strict. You get 2 activations by default, and 2 overflow activations by default, so in theory you can have 4 concurrently. However, if you end up needing more, you will begin running into limitations. That's good for us (because it means that people cannot exploit the system and endlessly install a copy of our game without paying for additional licenses), and it's good for you (because in the short run, the system is more flexible, and in the long run, without the requirement to unlicense, it is also much more forgiving on the player). Anyway, more details will be made public about this later this month when the game is actually released. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_j_rambo Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Okay, now that the dude living in the village has been helped, my turn. Is this going to be easy to install? Is it going to take a college level course to play? I don't wanna hear all this copy this folder, read the manual twice, tweak Windows, etc...I will be buying SC-WW1, I don't give a stink about the cost. I spent $68 on a tank gas for my ride today, I play $200/unit on my hoop plays. I go thru 2 to 3 computers per year. Just ship & bill the Legend......keep it easy, -Legend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjh1971 Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 ... From the player perspective, not much is changing. The biggest change I guess is that there will be no need to unlicense anymore (at all). ... If you look at the End User License Agreement printed in the manual, you will see that we allow you to have one copy of the game installed and another copy as "backup". Now, obviously many people use this to have two copies of the game running at the same time, but that's ok. We're not enforcing the backup part. The new licensing system will achieve the same end effect, but it's even less strict. You get 2 activations by default, and 2 overflow activations by default, so in theory you can have 4 concurrently. However, if you end up needing more, you will begin running into limitations. That's good for us (because it means that people cannot exploit the system and endlessly install a copy of our game without paying for additional licenses), and it's good for you (because in the short run, the system is more flexible, and in the long run, without the requirement to unlicense, it is also much more forgiving on the player). ... Hi Martin thanks for the quick response, and many thanks for increasing the number of installations at our disposal. Got one question though, when you say there's no need to unlicense anymore, you are not meaning unlicensing is not longer possible are you? Also is this new system going to be applied to the previously released battlefront games? The dude from the village , Mr j_j_r you were not good in geography were you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted February 17, 2011 Share Posted February 17, 2011 Correct, unlicensing is not possible (which means, you can"t forget it, either :-)) The system will not be applied to previous games, by and large, with probably a small number of exceptions (if any). Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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