Jump to content

New computer problem - Help.


Recommended Posts

Hi, I hope this sub-forum will be suitable for this question.

I just had to do a forced upgrade on my computer as my old motherboard apparently was bad. I had an ASUS A7V-133 and a 1.2 GHz Athlon, but now I have a ASUS A7V-333 with an 1800+ XP Athlon. I also am starting all over with a fresh reformat as I had a corrupted registry on my system due to a virus, I think. I just got it back on Friday. The shop had to flash the BIOS because of some problems.

Now here's the deal. Yesterday, (Saturday) I was using "My Computer" and I was transfering some folders from a saved folder containing most of my old imformation. I copied two folders of modlets for Dungeon Siege over to the master Dungeon Siege folder which was in C:\Program Files\Microsoft games. When I did this, the "Program Files" window locked up and quit responding. I could close down any other open "My Computer" windows, but not the "Program Files" window. So I did a CTRL-ALT-DEL shutdown of that window. It did't show a (not responding) message, but it eventually let me shut it down.

Now here's where it got weird. When I did this, I lost all but two icons in my System Tray. So I did a Windows restart. When the computer rebooted, Windows said it detected some unknown hardare, my motherboard! And it appeared to load something, probably drivers, but then later last evening when I webt to shut the machine down, I would get the "Windows 98 shutdown screen" but the machine would not power down. I hit reset a few times, but still the same result, so I just had to flip my power switch on my surge protector to shut it down.

What's up with that? Any idea, or am I gonna have to take it back to the shop?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds like your registry may have gotten corrupted again, possibly during the file copying process. When you got the 'found new hardware' and missing icons in the System Tray it is a fairly good indication that something happened to the registry.

Maybe you have bad memory (RAM) ? Did you install the latest VIA 4-in-1 drivers for your OS when you did the reinstall ? Maybe your hard drive has problems with the VIA controllers or can't handle certain DMA modes. Which OS are you using ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm still using Win98 SE. The shop did all the work. They were having some problems with it for several days, otherwise I would have had it back by Tuesday or so instead of Friday. But one problem they were having was that when they selected "Shut Down", it would actually do the equivalent of "Restart". They said they narrowed that problem down to an IRQ conflict with my sound card. It was working fine when I brought it home. Just that strange occurance last night.

I'm going to try to shut it down now to see if the problem is still there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The problem is still there. In fact, I had a lock-up with Recycle Bin in the same manner as the "program files" folder. Except this time I did get a "Not Responding" notification in the CTRL-ALT-DEL function.

But now, not only am I not getting a power down, but it's Restarting, just like it did in the shop.

I called the shop this morning and the tech said that try running an on-line virus scan (housecall.antivirus.com) to see if I had transfered a virus from my 'oldhd' folder to the real Program Files folder. Housecall scanned my entire drive and found nothing. He also said perhaps that I could try reseating my video card because right before I took it out of the office, they removed it temporarily to download the newest Nvidia Detoantor driver. (He only removed it for reference for the tech who downloaded the driver) And when he put it back in, it didn't quite go in right first.

But anyway, he's gonna check for any compatibility issues with this brand spanking new board and Win98.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suggest downloading and installing the VIA 4-in-1 4.40 Drivers. These are necessary for your chipset. The shop may have installed them, but maybe not.

Your problems may be beyond software. With file system lockups I wouldn't necessarily suspect the video card. The boot drive that you're using right now, was Win98 'cleanly' installed (format, etc.) with it attached to the new motherboard or was it just moved 'as is' from the previous motherboard setup ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Win98 was cleanly installed after a reformat, I think. That is that's how I understood it because my old HD was thoroughly trashed by viruses and the registery was screwed as well.

The major problem I'm having right this moment is that Explorer keeps hanging when I'm working with "My Computer" and the Recycle Bin.

I don't know if I mentioned it above, but the shop recovered all my information from the harddrive, stored it to a removable HD and then later restored it to a new folder on the clean HD in a folder called "oldhd". I have just spent the last hour or so going thru and deleting all my old stuff that I didn't need. Freeing up about 25 Gig.

While doing so, both Explorer and the Recycle Bin would hang several times where I would have to CTRL-ALT-DEL to shut them down. It seems almost like there's a memory problem. After I delete a bunch of stuff, it's like memory fills up and it won't clear itself properly.

But anyhow, I'm probably going to take it in either tomorrow or Wednesday and let them fool with it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The kinds of problems you're having do not sound like a virus. I'd start considering another shop, if that was their excuse.

Assuming your drivers are good -- which in this case really means, assuming you've tried various combinations of different versions of drivers -- it sounds more like a hardware problem than anything.

Just my two cents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fellas, I think we've figured it out. I called the shop this morning and after further research about this brand new board, they've found that it has on-board 5.1 surround sound and that it conflicts with my SBLive! They apparently loaded a software patch before leaving the shop and it was working fine, but as you may note above in my first post, when it rebooted one time it said Windows had found new hardware, the motherboard, and then it looked like it loaded new drivers for it. I'm thinking it over wrote the patch. And that's when my shutdown problems started. But the deal about why my Recycle Bin and "My Computer" windows are freezing up is still a mystery.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whats up, you definetly need to reformat, and if you feel like saving some money i could tell you how to how to do it yourself.

Also you may need a new Heat Sink for your zippy new AthlonXp1800. Amd runs notoriously hot and i could suggest a Thermaltake 7 Heatsink . For the heck of it check the microsoft HCL (hardware compatibility list)as well.

Thats a realy nice mobo you got too. If i went AMD that would be my motherboard.

In case your wondering if i'm competent, i recently built myself my own computer from scratch.

Asus P4te mobo, 512 rd ecc ram, 1.8 pentium4 northwood. Leadtek Geforce 4 ti 4400, Santa Cruz sound card, and i just did a clean install of Windows XP the other night.

Also it is important to do a clean install of windows 98.

Do a windows update as well, i beleive there is an IDE patch you might need since you have a fast processor.

Any questions feel free to e-mail me.

[ July 17, 2002, 09:12 PM: Message edited by: Gaylord Focker ]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by Gaylord Focker:

Also it is important to do a clean install of windows 98.

Why?

The reason I ask is that I'm planning to do a similar upgrade myself.

Change motherboard (MSI to Soltek 75DRV-5), CPU (with cooler) (PIII/800 to XP1800+), RAM (256/133 SDRAM to 2x256/266 DDR) and chassis (powersupply).

Everything is running smooth right now, and I was hoping to pretty much just move the HDD to the new set and boot it up.

My OS is Win98SE (Swedish) with the latest updates, and having to reinstall all software that influence the registry seems like a drag. (Otherwise it's not that big deal since I use the C: drive for Windows only, with other software installed on other partitions.)

Wouldn't it suffice to just do a new OS (and subsequent drivers) installation "on top" of the current?

What kinds of problem will I most likely encounter?

(I'm an engineer and used to handle electronics, could probably design and manually build a non standard computer (including CPU) from scratch, but do not know enough about current "standards".)

TIA

Olle

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Olle,

I wouldn't recommend "installing on top" of your current OS, as for one I don't think Windows would let you, but even if it did, it sounds like a recipe for disaster. An uninstall/reinstall of the OS is almost always a good idea if you're going to be moving the hard drive to a completely new machine (since EVERYTHING changes and the possibility for conflict is high), but since you're mainly just changing the motherboard/cpu, it probably won't complain too much (probably just initially). I'd say try moving the hard drive as is. If you have problems that aren't easily resolved (e.g., updating drivers), delete Windows and install fresh. Before you reinstall Windows you could always "export" the parts of the registry using regedit.exe that hold information about your installed programs, and then "import" that data after the reinstall. However, note that many programs make changes to the registry in numerous places that aren't always easy to find, so a complete reinstall of many or all of your programs may be in order.

Good luck.

BeWary

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a way to move your hard drive over to another computer and still use the OS and programs installed on it without having to go the 'clean install' route. However it isn't guaranteed to work and it involves quite a bit of registry editing and it probably doesn't work as well (or at all) with Win2K or XP since their registries are more complex with additional security settings, etc.

I suggest downloading and unzipping (but not necessarily installing yet) any new drivers that apply to your new setup, especially chipset drivers, newer video drivers, etc. Know where these are at so that you can search for them when the time comes to install them.

Basically you need to boot into Safe Mode, go into the System control panel > Device Manager and delete almost all of the devices in there (in no particular order):

USB Ports and controllers.

Video card (PCI or AGP).

Any PCI devices (SCSI, Network adapter, Firewire, Modem, etc.).

Keyboard.

Mouse.

All System devices EXCEPT 'Plug and Play BIOS', 'ISA PNP Read Data Port', 'Plug and Play Software Device Enumerator'. I forget the exact names, hopefully these are close enough and I'm not leaving one out.

If your network card has some unique settings or a non-Microsoft client you may be in for some heartache in reconfiguring it. You'll want to record any pertinent info.

Floppy controller.

Floppy drive.

IDE controllers (you'll be able to delete the Master/Parent device, but not the 'children' controllers).

Drives (SCSI, IDE, USB, CD/DVD, etc. - just the ones listed in the Device Manager, not the registry).

Monitor (though not necessary, it shoud be redetected during the video card's redetection if it is PNP).

With this done DON'T reboot yet. You'll need to go to the Registry Editor and remove some additional settings. In the Local Machine key I believe (if I can recall correctly) you'll want to go to the ENUM section and in here you'll want to delete any left over devices that are related to the ones you just deleted, EXCEPT you'll want to leave any Drives alone (even if there are more than you have). I'll need to boot up a Win9x/ME system to check and give you more specifics since I can't remember most of these.

After this you should be able to shutdown you computer and move the hard drive to the new setup (don't reboot with that drive otherwise devices will be reinstalled).

One major assumption here is that your new motherboard and it's BIOS doesn't recognize your new drive in a significantly different manner. This could cause all sorts of boot problems if it is recognized and setup differently in the CMOS. If this ends up happening, then a partition, format and clean install would be your only option.

With the drive installed in your new computer you'll want to make sure the BIOS/CMOS settings are the way you want them BEFORE you boot into Windows. This will affect what devices may be seen by Windows and other important details. Once you boot into Windows it will start identifying devices and require SEVERAL reboots. I'd probably suggest leaving your video card as a 'SVGA adapter' for now rather than install the driver just yet. Once this process is done you may want to install unique device drivers (or updated ones) for some of the devices that Windows has found. I'd suggest installing the chipset drivers first since they can affect several devices. If your motherboard supports USB 2.0, then you may have USB devices that WON'T install since USB 2.0 is only recognized by WinXP (or an unique driver that will support it for older Windows versions - but I'm not sure how many of those exist). After this then you may want to install/re-install DirectX, then your sound and video drivers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Guys! smile.gif

Seems to be not that big deal after all! ;)

Originally posted by Schrullenhaft:

One major assumption here is that your new motherboard and it's BIOS doesn't recognize your new drive in a significantly different manner.

Different from what?

I see no reason why one BIOS would recognize the HDD different than another...

Cheers

Olle

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by Schrullenhaft:

I suggest downloading and installing the VIA 4-in-1 4.40 Drivers. These are necessary for your chipset. The shop may have installed them, but maybe not.

The ASUS mobo CD came with those on it.

But what's funny here is that it doesn't seem to want to keep the Time & Date settings between shutdowns. I booted up this morning and it had set itself back to December 31, 2001 while asking me about Daylight Savings Time at boot-up.

Is there some internal battery that holds this information?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by JMcGuire:

If your shop didn't know you had on-board sound, you DEFINITELY need a new shop...

Being that's a brand new, top-of-the-line motherboard, they've only had two of them in. Mine and some other guy who built his own with it. So they aren't, or shall I say, weren't all that familiar with it yet. But they are now...after they had time to read the manual.

Besides, the on-board sound actually sounds a lot better than my old soundcard. Clearer sound. No popping, etc. DVD sound is much better. Even in just 2-speaker mode the simulated 3D sound is awesome. This'll save me from having to buy a new soundcard. I just need to find me a good set of 5.1 speakers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by StarFleet Captain:

Being that's a brand new, top-of-the-line motherboard, they've only had two of them in. Mine and some other guy who built his own with it. So they aren't, or shall I say, weren't all that familiar with it yet. But they are now...after they had time to read the manual.

I hear you, but I still disagree. It's trivial to determine that a mobo has on-board audio. I've built MANY machines, always from scratch, and basically a trained monkey could determine whether a mobo has on-board audio.

Also, the A7V-333 isn't THAT new, it came out at the end of March. In motherboard terms that makes it almost middle-aged. smile.gif

Also, pose these questions to your shop:

1. Do you have a RAID array?

Since it sounds like you might not know a lot about computer hardware, I suspect the answer is No. RAID support adds expense to the cost of a mobo, and non-RAID versions are almost always available. If you don't know what RAID is, you almost certainly don't need it, so why did you pay for it? ...Asking them, not you. smile.gif

2. Are you using PC2700 DDR RAM?

This is relatively fast memory. If you didn't ask for it, there's a good chance you're using PC2100, which is slightly slower and quite a bit cheaper. And if you're using PC2100 you might as well get the older and cheaper A7V-266e and save money all 'round.

And now that I mention the A7V-266e, you should consider that the A7V-333 that you have isn't all that new since it's really just a faster version of the 266e.

Again, I'd get a new shop.

(BTW, if you had popping with the sound on your old mobo, most likely you had an IRQ conflict, and most likely it's the printer port. This was a well-known problem with older sound cards. Happily those kinds of problems mostly go away with new hardware.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by StarFleet Captain:

But what's funny here is that it doesn't seem to want to keep the Time & Date settings between shutdowns. I booted up this morning and it had set itself back to December 31, 2001 while asking me about Daylight Savings Time at boot-up.

Is there some internal battery that holds this information?

Yes, it's called the CMOS battery. It's a little round battery like wrist watches use. (And I hate to say it again, but if your shop missed THAT one...)

Page 15 of your manual shows the location of the battery, which you should be able to buy at Radio Shack for about $2. Your battery is directly behind the PCI slots, just above the floppy connector.

If they didn't give you the manual, you can download it here in PDF format:

ftp://ftp.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/socka/kt333/a7v333/e1010_a7v333.pdf

If you're losing CMOS, this could be related to your other problems, particularly if you DO have a RAID setup. CMOS is the memory that holds all of your computers' BIOS settings. In most cases with newer machines the computer can still run with the default BIOS settings, although usually not optimally, but it's definitely something to regard with suspicion if it's not holding the date.

Heck, maybe you just have a bad mobo. It does happen from time to time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by JMcGuire:

I hear you, but I still disagree. It's trivial to determine that a mobo has on-board audio. I've built MANY machines, always from scratch, and basically a trained monkey could determine whether a mobo has on-board audio.

Well, actually I think they did. Because they would have have to because they disabled it as I had my old SBLive! that they installed.

Also, the A7V-333 isn't THAT new, it came out at the end of March. In motherboard terms that makes it almost middle-aged. smile.gif
Well, OK, it's not brand new but close. ;)

Also, pose these questions to your shop:

1. Do you have a RAID array?

Yes, I believe it does. It's got RAID ATA133.

Since it sounds like you might not know a lot about computer hardware, I suspect the answer is No. RAID support adds expense to the cost of a mobo, and non-RAID versions are almost always available. If you don't know what RAID is, you almost certainly don't need it, so why did you pay for it? ...Asking them, not you. smile.gif
Well now hold on there, my friend. I've had a home computer for the past 12 years now and I've seen my share of hardware. Now I'm no expert by all means, but when I'm buying upgrades, I ask a lot of questions. I make sure I know exactly what I'm getting.

2. Are you using PC2700 DDR RAM?

This is relatively fast memory. If you didn't ask for it, there's a good chance you're using PC2100, which is slightly slower and quite a bit cheaper. And if you're using PC2100 you might as well get the older and cheaper A7V-266e and save money all 'round.

Yes, I'm using PC2100 because the distributor will not take back the PC2700 DIMMS at this time. You buy'em, they're yours, kind of thing. The shop didn't want to risk going with PC2700 at this time. Because I think they said they built a Athlon 2100+ XP system once with PC2700 and they were having problems with it. So I chose to go with the cheaper and more tried and tested 1800+.

And now that I mention the A7V-266e, you should consider that the A7V-333 that you have isn't all that new since it's really just a faster version of the 266e.
You mean get a slower board after I already have this one built and in use? No thanks.

Again, I'd get a new shop.
Can't do it. I live in a small town. They're the only really dedicated computer building shop in town. I've done business with them for the past year or so, and I've been pretty pleased with them.

(BTW, if you had popping with the sound on your old mobo, most likely you had an IRQ conflict, and most likely it's the printer port. This was a well-known problem with older sound cards. Happily those kinds of problems mostly go away with new hardware.)
Actually I should rephrase that. It was never really a popping sound as such, because I know what those sound like. I guess it was more like static at times or just speaker static. This on-board sound is crystal clear.

[ July 21, 2002, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: StarFleet Captain ]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by JMcGuire:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by StarFleet Captain:

Is there some internal battery that holds this information?

Yes, it's called the CMOS battery. It's a little round battery like wrist watches use. (And I hate to say it again, but if your shop missed THAT one...)</font>
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 'static' sound is a known problem between the Creative PCI sound cards (like Live & Audigy) and most of the VIA chipsets. I believe it stems from the lack of bus-mastering by the Creative sound cards. The problem has also been experienced with other chipsets, but it occurs most often with the VIA's. I think a few motherboard manufacturers released BIOS updates that help with this problem (adjusting PCI latencies or something), but there was no universal, sure-fire cure to my knowledge.

In regards to the PC2700 memory, it isn't necessary for the XP1800+ or the ASUS A7V333. While memory of such speed can provide headroom to allow you to overclock the FSB, it really does very little if you're running at a standard FSB of 133MHz (or 135MHz as ASUS is often clocked to by default). A better performance spec to look at for memory (if you're not looking to overclock your CPU) is the CAS/RAS Latency. You may see specs of 'CL2' or '2-2-2', etc. Sometimes the higher rated RAM can handle the lower latencies at the lower clock speed (i.e. - PC2700 could possibly handle 2-2-2 at 133MHz/PC2100 speeds whereas it is rated at 2.5.-3-3 for 166Mhz/PC2700 operation).

For more info on VIA chipsets and some of the products their used in these forums are a source of some decent info: VIA Arena Forums

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...