scottie Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Earlier in this thread you mentioned sending a team back somewhere to get more ammo. If you have a MG team in a good position , can you "split team" and send one half back to get ammo ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisND Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Earlier in this thread you mentioned sending a team back somewhere to get more ammo. If you have a MG team in a good position , can you "split team" and send one half back to get ammo ? Yep! Doesn't even have to be organic to the MG team I believe, if they are sitting next to them and have the correct ammo, they will share it if needed. ETA: I misunderstood you. Keep a seperate ammo bearer team around to go for ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 Earlier in this thread you mentioned sending a team back somewhere to get more ammo. If you have a MG team in a good position , can you "split team" and send one half back to get ammo ? No. Er, I don't think so. The US MG teams come with ammo bearers who carry a crud-load of ammo, and can be sent back for more. The German HMG teams don't have dedicated ammo teams, but are larger and carry more intrinsic ammo. Earlier in this thread I think I talked about a pair of HMGs on Hill 144 that spent something like 20 minutes, firing pretty much continuously - the German teams have a LOT of ammo. Being larger also makes them more robust in combat since they can sustain more cas and still keep fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Could well be a a wrack fired till explosion for Wochenschau Newsreel team after the battle. [...] Nice find, but I don't think it proofs any thing for or against commonness of blowing off tank turrets within battle. The chance that this was staged is much larger than 50% IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkhorn1x Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 The chance that this was staged is much larger than 50% IMHO. The Nazis put out propaganda? Who knew? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finalcut Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 The funny part is,the Nazi's actually learned Propoganda from an American,Edward Bernays(He wasn't born in the United States,but he obtained citizenship as a child) Goeebbels learned most of what he knew from watching and reading Edward Bernays in action.Edward Bernays was Jewish and the nephew of an intellectual(Sigmund Frued)Crazy World we live in. Google Edward Bernays and you will be amazed at what that man did and who he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankster65 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Very true finalcut. Modern American Public Relations industry is based on his teachings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 The Nazis put out propaganda? Who knew? It was probably what they were best at. There are plenty of people around today who still buy it. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottie Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 No. Er, I don't think so. The US MG teams come with ammo bearers who carry a crud-load of ammo, and can be sent back for more. The German HMG teams don't have dedicated ammo teams, but are larger and carry more intrinsic ammo. Earlier in this thread I think I talked about a pair of HMGs on Hill 144 that spent something like 20 minutes, firing pretty much continuously - the German teams have a LOT of ammo. Being larger also makes them more robust in combat since they can sustain more cas and still keep fighting. Thanks for the reply. So the US MG teams have an ammo bearer , does a user invoke split team to send him back ? or is it another unit that just happens to hang about with the MG team ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 another unit that just happens to hang about with the MG team ... ... and is loaded with a crudload of ammo. Anti tank guns of both nations similarly have an ammo bearer team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottie Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 excellent , thank you for the clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kulik Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 ... and is loaded with a crudload of ammo. Anti tank guns of both nations similarly have an ammo bearer team. btw I read somewhere that in CM:SF the load-out of infantry doesn't affect theirs stamina and speed. True/false? And what about CM:BN? Are those overloaded ammo bearers sprinting like scout teams? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Re Bernays. Yes, fascinating. Well worth the read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 20: Making Lemonade With no effective long ranged anti-tank weapons left but four Shermans on the loose my troops will now have to fight and die where they are – in the Bois de Baugin on Hill 154, in the woods on Hill 144, and in the buildings and especially das Alamo in la Campagne. There’s also an HMG and spotter to the rear on Hill 148, but they can only observe and support the other locations, rather than fight for their own hill. In an effort to make lemonade out of the lemons I’m now holding, I decide to undertake some stalking, on both Hills 154 and 144. On Hill 154 the objective is to buddy aid as many of my fallen as I can, hopefully retrieving some ‘schreck rounds, MGs, and ‘fausts. My men hunt forward slowly in extended line, clearing friendly bodies and wounded as they go. They also find a LOT of US bodies – Elvis must have really taken a beating in here earlier. (larger image) He hasn’t been very thorough cleaning up his wounded. The one thing I don’t find are many live US soldiers. The only ones I come across are the remnants of a tank crew, one of whom I kill, while the other surrenders. (larger image) Players can't issue orders to surrendering teams, so I have to remain close in order to retain control and wait until the white flag appears. It’s a bit of a nerve-wracking wait, made worse since there’s no fixed amount of time it takes for a unit to go from hands-in-the-air to white-flag-and-vanish. I suspect that Elvis must have pulled the rest of his forces back to the edge of the Bois. I don’t want to waltz into his line, so after clearing what I can I pull back again. Coming across the tank crew is interesting though - you wouldn’t normally expect to find them in the front line. On Hill 144 the objective of my stalking is a little more ambitious. (larger image) Elvis has had this Sherman parked in the woods for about 20-30 minutes now, and it’s the one the ‘schreck team earlier fired off all five of its rounds at unsuccessfully. From this location the Sherman has been shelling the 2-storey section of the Villa/das Alamo. I don’t have anyone in that building – for obvious reasons – but that amount of firepower dominating my last position isn’t cool. The tank is positioned only about 30m forward of my line, and I reason that I should be able to clear forward to it, then poke a ‘faust or two into its flank. I concoct an cunning plan. I have a six-man section from the reserve platoon with two ‘fausts – they are the strike team tasked with eliminating the tank. Several other remnant sections will hunt forward of the strike team to clear away any infantry that Elvis has in close protection. The final element is provided by the HQ of the HMG section stationed on ‘144 – they will hook around and approach the tank from its front right in order to distract the turret firepower long enough for the strike team to fire their weapons. The plan works perfectly. The lead elements work their way forward, discovering and eliminating an MMG team. The MG Section HQ loops around and gains the undivided attention of the tank’s coax, much to their discomfort (larger image) The strike team move forward, get into a perfect position, and … (larger image) … panic. There was a lot of shooting in the area, but as far as I can tell no one was shooting directly at them. They certainly didn’t take any casualties. They simply got spooked and ran. This is a direct consequence of my own 75mm artillery falling short – this squad’s morale has been so shaken by that event that they’re no longer capable of attacking. Suppression of units goes up and down according to the amount of fire they’re receiving, but lowered morale is fixed for the duration of the scenario, leaving this squad – and the majority of my force by this stage – for defence-only. Down in la Campagne he’s finally starting to get into the forward buildings – which of course are by now undefended. But here there’s another interesting observation to be made – he’s using ammo bearers and HQs to lead the assault. In conjunction with the front-line tank crew on Hill 154, this can only mean his regular infantry has taken such a beating that they’re no longer effective, like my own. This gives me some optimism about my predicament, since I feel that the weakness of his infantry will offset the strength of his armour. 16 minutes to go. This is getting tense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 21: Desperation The replacement Sherman on Hill 154 is, for some reason, staying quite close to the woods, even though that’s the most dangerous place for him given my infantry anti-tank weapons. My life is made a little trickier though given that the previous owner of my last ‘schreck died with it right at the edge of the woods. I need it, though, so despite the risk a team is sent out to retrieve it. (larger image) When I get the ‘shreck back it’s a little disconcerting to find it only has one round. The very next turn, by astonishing timing, the Sherman comes in close to the woods ... (larger image) ... and the team let fly with their newly acquired round. (You can see the gap the Sherman created for itself in the fence when it drove through.) About 20 seconds later this happens (larger image) The crew must have gotten spooked by the hit on the turret front, and bailed out. The tank is still serviceable, but frustratingly I don’t have any more anti-tank weapons available. On the other hand, the soft and chewy centre is now exposed on the outside, even though I can’t see them after they hit the deck in the long grass. I quickly move up some more units, hoping to destroy the crew as they re-enter the tank. All I see of them getting back in is the hatches closing, followed by (larger image) The Death Star is fully operational again. Sometimes I wish CMBN didn’t have so much depth and detail. 11 more minutes to hold out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gpig Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Cracking good read, JonS! Good luck. Gpig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stikkypixie Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 20: Making Lemonade … panic. There was a lot of shooting in the area, but as far as I can tell no one was shooting directly at them. They certainly didn’t take any casualties. They simply got spooked and ran. This is a direct consequence of my own 75mm artillery falling short – this squad’s morale has been so shaken by that event that they’re no longer capable of attacking. Suppression of units goes up and down according to the amount of fire they’re receiving, but lowered morale is fixed for the duration of the scenario, leaving this squad – and the majority of my force by this stage – for defence-only. Hey Jon, is this something that's changed from CMSF? Shouldn't morale go up if the team stays out of combat long enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barkhorn1x Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 The Death Star is fully operational again. Sometimes I wish CMBN didn’t have so much depth and detail. Jon - I feel your pain here but that - THAT - is outstanding!! And you just posted two very enjoyable (to me anyway ) rounds really showing us what this engine can do. It's a whole no level baby!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted January 20, 2011 Author Share Posted January 20, 2011 Hey Jon, is this something that's changed from CMSF? I'm not sure - I think so. Shouldn't morale go up if the team stays out of combat long enough? Why? The effects of suppression drop away if the unit is in a safe place or not under fire. But I don't think units who've just seen their mates shredded by artillery, or perforated by an MG, should recover their morale within the timeframe of a scenario. I like it this way, since it forces another layer of cost-benefit decisions on the player. It also starkly highlights one of the benefits of having an uncommitted reserve ... which I wish I still had right about now Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincere Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I'm not sure - I think so. Why? The effects of suppression drop away if the unit is in a safe place or not under fire. But I don't think units who've just seen their mates shredded by artillery, or perforated by an MG, should recover their morale within the timeframe of a scenario. I like it this way, since it forces another layer of cost-benefit decisions on the player. It also starkly highlights one of the benefits of having an uncommitted reserve ... which I wish I still had right about now Jon Yeah, this sounds like it's going to be interesting to play with. By the way a C2 question. When a unit surrender, hand up but no white flag yet, do they still spot for the owner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted January 21, 2011 Author Share Posted January 21, 2011 When a unit surrender, hand up but no white flag yet, do they still spot for the owner? I'm not sure, either way. It's one of the things I'm investigating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincere Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I'm not sure, either way. It's one of the things I'm investigating. I would presume that they wouldn't pass the C2 spotting to other units, but be interested whether that's modeled or whether I'm over simplifying it. Amy way, Jon, heroic effort stalking forward with the fausts; keep dishing the pain. Infact bag another sherman or pull off a wood ambush and we'll be very proud And when the 15 minutes are up please post the map review and a screen of you highest kill hero squad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boche Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Im secretely rooting for the boche... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 How much artillery do you have left? Are all your fire missions used up? Seems like your company 81mms ought to be dropping a fairly steady rain of death on Elvis at this point as the locations of his infantry concentrations become evident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astano Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 btw I read somewhere that in CM:SF the load-out of infantry doesn't affect theirs stamina and speed. True/false? And what about CM:BN? Are those overloaded ammo bearers sprinting like scout teams? There were some tests run on that subject in the CMSF forums. The official answer was that speed is unaffected by the amount of weight carried but that recovery time is: Correct, the effect of the extra weight is on the endurance, not the speed of the unit. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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