New file at the Repository: (SC2G) Brute Force 1939-1945 v3.21 (2010-12-08)

[Battlefront Repository]

WW2 1939-1945Major Powers: Germany, Italy, Japan, USA, UK(CW), USSRMinor Majors: France and ChinaScale: 40m per hex Europe, 80m per hex Pacific Version 3.3 - AdditionsElite units: SS, Guard Mech, ASW Bombers, CVEsExpanded map: Split USA, Full North Atlantic, South America, Full AfricaAI functions: Added AI strategies and correctionsgame is compressed .rar

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[Big Al]

Corrected ~50 errors and improved AI strategies and a new one.

New supply blockade zones added in the Pacific

Condensed convoys

Added cities in Poland to slowdown late Russian attacks in 1944 and 1945.

Added factory move event for Russia

Added oil embargo event for USA

combined USA as one. For PvP game I make the suggestion simply NOT to move Pearl Harbor BBs.

Removed SS, Mech, and CVE as they were kinda pointless to the game.

Completed additions to new map areas.

Please check to see if Italy can claim French colonies (Tunis, Rabat, Algiers) after vichy is declared. It didnt fire for me but it did for Hubert.

There is only 1 minor issue I am working on that doesnt impact the game itself for anything noticeable.

Im hoping this will be the last big revision.

[SeaMonkey]

Did you fix the FIC Vichy problem where, if Japan has taken FIC and the Vichy DE is responded to "yes", all Japanese units in FIC disappear?

[Big Al]

Explain that one?

If Germany says yes to Vichy then the Japs have 2 options take FIC now or at the end of 1941.

If Germany says no its Free France and they cant take it.

You shouldnt be taking FIC before France falls because it pisses off the USA.

"Yall slant eyes orientals can kill each other all ya want (China and Japan), but if ya can't touch a white man's colony (IC) ....OOOO we get mad!"

[SeaMonkey]

Wait a minute Al, I don't give a "Flying Fickle Finger of Fate" about what the Yanks think, I have to create the "Greater Co-prosperity Sphere".

FIC is the best staging area for the SRA and unlike those Tojo cronies from the past, I'm not waiting around, the IJN needs that oil. Historically if it hadn't been for the IJA, the IJN would have moved faster into the SRA, like I'm going to do.:cool:

What? You're going to penalize me because I'm a better decision maker, sounds like socialism to me. Just because I'm smarter, willing to make the sacrifices, and just dog on better looking, and people like me, you're not going to allow me to be successful.

There's something ordainly wrong about that hypothesis!:mad:

[Big Al]

The option has 2 sets. Take FIC right when Vichy is declared and take a slight USA hit. Or wait till end of 41. So are you taking it ASAP when vichy comes in and its not working?

[SeaMonkey]

Exactly, I'm DoWing FIC early 40 and it has surrendered before the Germans get anywhere close to Paris. The Japanese are moving on Thailand, about ready for their surrender and Vichy is declared. All Japanese units staging in FIC for SRA and Thai attack disappear, no relocation, Scotty has beamed them up!

Its like, adios MoFo, we ain't attacking anybody, SeaMonkey, in fact, we're going on vacation never to found again, good luck with your fricken war!

Needless to say this completely screws up my Japanese timetable for the whole war, I now have to go back and retake FIC and then restage new troops for the SRA invasion. I'm OK with any hits to readiness and Japanese MPPs for the FIC incursion, as it was historically, the Allies completely embargoed Japan when they announced the Franco-Japanese protectorate of FIC.

This was after Vichy occurred, but it was the IJN's conclusion that moving south was the only logical alternative to the IJA's sphere of emphasis in China and possible escalation with the USSR. Even before the European conflict, Japan has secured Hainan and the Spratlys in the S.China Sea and was making opening moves to threaten the whole of the SRA in hopes the Allied powers would relinquish control without war.

Let's face it Al, the Europeans and Americans were in no position to directly threaten Japanese moves into the SRA, all they could do was sabre rattle, use diplomacy, and terminate trade agreements which caused even a more determined IJN to move south and secure the oil.

The IJN recognized it early and so does General SeaMonkey and we want to "get'r done" as quickly as possible. Why put off the inevitable? The whole Axis "what-if" to win the war is a tight timetable, early SRA and early Barbarossa.

[Big Al]

Ahh ok. So basically you DOW on France before it surrenders.

I can fix that. I just assumed no one would be foolish enough to do so.

I will look at the scripts and see what is going on and how I can change it. FIC is not a country, its part of France. So DOW on it is a DOW on the UK and a large hit on the USA. (again attacking the white man stuff).

BTW Siam aligns with you when you take indo-china. You read the scenario data?

I am in the process of adding some information in the start section of the scenario.

[SeaMonkey]

I'm OK with that, it's only reasonable that UK and France would go to war with Japan on a FIC DoW admist USA escalation. Yeah I knew about Siam, but before I can get to Bangkok, UK puts a bomber there and with my units at low supply(because FIC has gone neutral on Vichy event) its tough to get the city back.

I'm not sure this is a viable strategy(it may be foolish) but how will I know if I can't play it out? It turns out that the early Barbarossa works very well as it allows a prepositioning of Axis forces for a more efficient 1941 Summer of activities in USSR.

Just make sure the consequences of the early Japanese actions in the SRA are concurrent with historical precedence, embargo and belligerency.

[Big Al]

Whats SRA?

I looked at the script and there is no way to stop a territory transfer if France goes Vichy. There is no positional condition in the scripts to allow it.

I did penalize it more if the Japs attack FIC before Vichy. All the UK colonies activate Solomons/Malaya/Burma so they can screw with you.

But I cant fix this loophole. Too many variables to script in.

[SeaMonkey]

Well, it is what it is, perhaps FIC should be on its own, a minor not tied to France, where it can be swayed by Axis diplomacy and not at the mercy of a Vichy script.

The SRA = Southern Resource Area, especially DEI, Borneo, Burma, where the oil was. The only reason Malaya and the Philippines were a part of the SRA strategy was flank and communication security as well as staging areas, the real target was DEI. This was the only reason to go to war, the raw materials from these areas offset the embargoes inflicted by the Allied powers.

There was a "school of thought" that had American appeasement set to Japanese concessions in China, withdrawal, but the IJA had too much invested and were firmly entrenched in Japanese politics, the IJN would have relinquished had they been in a more politically powerful position, my opinion of course.

The "what if" goes like this, IJN in control, removal, albeit slowly from China with emphasis of taking European colonies from German conquered powers, Dutch and French. Eventual clash with UK over Burma and Malaya and of course the finality of having to remove the Philippine threat by making USA declare war, no PH.

You have to remember the rather hypocritical USA political viewpoint of the Far East, the Administration wanting to get involved, but the public took a dim view of Americans going in harms way to preserve the European colonial aspirations, never mind those of the USA. America represented "moral" clarity with respect to China with its advocacy of the "Open Door" policy sometimes clashing with European interests. IMO it would have been a while before USA declared war on Japan, there would be a need for an "incident" and only after forward bases in the Philppines, Guam, and some of the UK colonies were built up to necessitate military power projection on to the Japanes lines of communication from the SRA.

It's your mod, I'm just trying to interject additional strategic variables, SC thrives on multiple paths of execution.

[Big Al]

I got you. I have debates with a buddy of mine that is far more well versed in WW2 than I am. I dont think the USA would have gone to war if the Japs entered Siam, FIC, and NEI. He says they would.

But the point is game mechanics and play balance. Like if I made the USSR never come into the war at any point as long as Germany didnt DOW on them... then why would a German player ever do so until the UK was out.

Letting the Japs DOW on France without penalty because strategically is it the rational thing to do then the Jap player would always do it. I would. Who cares about the 1 corp I get in Siam. Gimme that guaranteed oil.

I could make a seperate nation of FIC. Keep it +allied mobilization initially. If France goes to conquest it goes 100% allied tied to UK. If it goes vichy I shift it to axis mobilization. But then I would have to do that for all the colonies. What stops the Japs from invading New Calidonia, Madagascar, East Africa, or West Africa without repercussions. Thats free MPPs and logical to take. The allies have to take it back and waste time.

Also if the japs did swing south the CW would go on alert in the pacific. I created the Solomons, Malaya, and Burma countries so the UK can't exploit those areas and reinforcement before war with the Japs.

I gotta think about how to do this. I think +8 to +12% USA toward allies is fair for DOWing on France for FIC and activation of the CW pacific colonies. The CW still has to reinforce them.

So if i make FIC a nation... do I make the rest? What happens with Vichy? If the Japs take all the colonies and Hitler goes to the table with France for Vichy what would it be in it for them to say yes, they lost everything.

These are all thoughts shooting our from my head as I type. But the main purpose is for play balance and resolving your problem of "I want to DOW on France, I dont care the riskes". Then the country goes back to Vichy.

.... 5m later

It might just be reasonable to make FIC a nation just so the allies cant reinforce it before war with the Japs and it would solve your problem.

[SeaMonkey]

I understand about the playability and balance, Al, and you should be commended for your excellent mod, I'm just trying to help make it better with viable historical what-ifs for additional options, both sides. We can argue all day long about whether they did this or if I do that, this would happen, so let's work backwards. We know from documentation that eventually USSR would declare war on Germany, and I believe eventually that the USA and Japan were coming to blows also with or without PH, they both knew it.

Historically Japan had two options, either relinquish its grip on China or go to war to obtain the raw materials of the SRA and yes, like your friend says, Japan fully recognized that meant war with UK and USA. What we know from hindsight is that option one means Japan would lose face and the fabric, beliefs and cultural determination instilled in the populace would not allow that to happen, in essence the Japanese also believed in their own manifest destiny. The West failed to grasp that so that left only option 2.

Just like it is advantageous for Germany to strike USSR early before they, in their turn attack, it is likewise for Japan to commit before UK and USA can reinforce their forward bases, these are the catalysts for the conflict. The Japanese oil reserves are depleting very quickly, ie MPP reduction, when the full Allied embargo and asset seizure occurs after the occupation of FIC, get it? The Nipponese are in decline from that moment forward and must initiate the seizure of SRA, especially DEI, or become inconsequential, the clock is ticking.

Now how you simulate that with the SC engine is something I'm sure a lot more people in the beta testing ranks know about than I do. I just know if the Japanese player wants to win he must secure the DEI and SRA and not leave the Philippines astride his lines of communications as likewise for the UK base at Singapore. The fact remains that the Allies did not go to war over Japan's seizure of FIC. Would they have if Japan took DEI? Can Japan take DEI without staging in Borneo, the Celebes? Surely UK would have gone to war over Borneo or Malaya, but what about USA? The USN 3rd naval build cycle was not due for completion until 1943 when parity shifts in the Pacific to USA.

IMO, any move further into the SRA after FIC occupation activates UK bringing more assets into the region. Any attack on British assets in the SRA or moves against DEI compels USA to move forward to the Philippines and Guam and also in joint resolutions to build up southwestern and western Pacific UK colonies.

The Japanese player will not win if he allows the USA to project further power into the Philippines, anywhere westward of the Hawaiian Islands, and so the conflict begins, as it did, with Japan as the aggressor, at a time of their choosing.

[Big Al]

Well this is what I did... and its a little trick Im using with the scripts that really wasnt intended to be this way, but it works.

FIC is a nation now allied 50%

Japs DOW on FIC if it is Free or if France is still in the game - USA +8-12% Solomons, Malaya, Burma become active (more MPPs for UK ~7 per turn)

This was done on a check vs its mobilization. FIC is only allied tended if France is in the game or it is conquered. If France went Vichy then FIC is axis alligned. Sooo....

If it is axis aligned (vichy) then the japs have the option to occupy it in Sept of 1940 or in Dec of 1941. They can still DOW on it after its Vichy (which would be stupid naturally) with the penalties as if it were Free French. This can works because this script fires only if it is aligned axis. If the japs DOWed on it while free it would be allied aligned and surrendered... so no script.

So viola! its done. Now I have to see if I can fix the Italian part.

[SeaMonkey]

You did it! I knew it could be done with this awesome editor Hubert has created and the equally innovative minds we have lurking here. I'm sure glad you guys funnel your thought processes into SC.....otherwise ...y'all could be dangerous.

[Big Al]

I had to make a slight change. I had to use too many scripts to have the penalty of Pacific territories coming into the war early if the Japs took indochina before Vichy is established. Somehow the UK was at war with Japan automatically and Im not sure why.

So I simplified it taking out 8 scripts and making it a +12-15% increase in USA mobilization as a penalty.

[Big Al]

I am working on the final elements of the game before the new upload. I want to complete this so I can translate it to the WWI mod with a full 8 majors and a better AI.

ISSUES:

Italy and French colonies: I added something to allow Italy to take colonies from France but the issue I am having is when they surrender. It will take a mountain of "if then" scripts to secure it properly. Right now Im trying to reduce this down so the AI is faster. What happens is if Italy takes Algiers and/or Beruit they can claim that territory from France. It prevents the French from simply evacuating it. The problem is that there are no condition checks on creating a new country thus when Vichy West Africa or Vichy Syria is created they pop all the units back home. Which, of course, defeats the purpose of the function. Even if the Vichy colonies are set to 100% axis in case of this event the units still pop back.

#2 Deciding if I should script in USSR AI to attack Japan in case the Germans get frisky and look like they wont do a 1941 Barb. This AI procedure is very very challenging as a human player can exploit it. The key is timing so that the human player can't exploit it during the summer.

#3 Making sure naval and invasion scripts are working at their peak performance to prevent a human play from exploiting it.