First impressions

[Clavicula_Nox]

I'm on mission 2 of the German campaign and, as per usual, I have no idea how to effectively recon for hidden ATGM positions when my scouts are sitting around in what amounts to open topped jeeps.

I'm having a really good time with the campaign once the panzertruppen arrive, though!

[BigJ62]

Had a Pickup ZU-23-2 take apart one of my leopards - awesome.

[snake_eye]

I am very much impressed by the German NATO forces. Up to now, I haven’t played the campaign but gone through only two scenarios. A small one “25 km to Suran” and a large one “Germany on the march”.

I got a Total victory in the first one and a Draw in the second, despite having all the objectives in control.

By the way its setting for the objectives points is not the one shown on the briefing. More, the parameters for the threshold of the red set at 30% and 500 points for inflicting casualties on the Blue, released them at 24.8 % (human casualties). I recall that I have found already this kind of percentage calculus anomaly earlier.

That is not important anyway.

The good things were that the A.I was better than ever.

I have been able to reach an objective with the Marders and mopped it. The Marders with still the infantry aboard were turning in place clockwise and anticlockwise with the turret’s 20mm creating havoc in the red ranks. It was very realistic. I have never seen that done so faithfully before

The leopards were getting through the infantry positions and then cleaning the area, the time for the Marders to come.

There were a huge number of platoons mounted on Marders and leopards to handle in Elite Real Time and yet it was manageable. Thanks to the A.I

That is the first time that I have seen that without being shot to piece.

Something with V 1.30 has changed for sure.

However, I am wondering if the setting for the Germans forces has not been beefed up. I really don’t think that I could have carried an attack like the one done in “Germany on the March” with US Army Strykers and or Bradley’s and M1’s. The same with the Marines LAR’s , Bradley’s and M1’s. I will have got away from it without my pants.

I am exaggerating? Have you had the same feeling playing NATO German’s?

Thumb up for NATO

Cheers

[snake_eye]

All maps were revised.

Attack/Defend Maps: AI Attacker has been given a series of orders to push the Human completely off the objectives. The AI Defender has a variable timed counter attack order which allows the AI to attempt to reinforce or retake lost objectives.

Meeting Engagement AI pathing was redesigned to better approach and stage final attacks on objectives.

AI Artillery preset orders are in use for all maps but with settings to allow for possible AI strikes later in the game.

Could you be more precise about "The AI Defender has a variable timed counter attack order".

Do you mean that there is now in the editor a time function ?

That would be great.

Cheers

[ChrisND]

Do you mean that there is now in the editor a time function ?

There have time functions for the AI since day one. It's the "Move After" / "Move Before" functions.

[MikeyD]

However, I am wondering if the setting for the Germans forces has not been beefed up.

There was never a word of discussion or suggestion or the least little hint about tweaking any nationalities' performance during development. Considering the number of times people have claimed total victories in scenarios that I had lost, perhaps in that particular scenario you were just lucky! Imagine your Marders blowing up instead of mopping up during that battle. All it would've taken was a couple lucky hits from the Red side.

[snake_eye]

Thanks Normal Dude

Quote:

Originally Posted by snake_eye View Post

Do you mean that there is now in the editor a time function ?

There have time functions for the AI since day one. It's the "Move After" / "Move Before" functions.

Well, I just went before reading your reply, in the editor and there is no change it is still the same. I have misread MarkEZRA and thought that there was a time trigger working when you get into an area. Actually it is difficult to synchronize a time for a counter attack, since you might have it start at the wrong time not knowing what the player is about to do.

Cheers

[Kat Johnston]

Well shucks. Now I've failed the first two missions of the Canadian campaign, so I'm outta that one as well. Third time lucky!

[Sergei]

John, here's a pro tip: if you play Rammstein in the background, the game will allow you to win every German mission automatically!

The same feature is also present for the Canadians: you only need to play Celine Dion for the whole campaign to win...

[Dietrich]

John, here's a pro tip: if you play Rammstein in the background, the game will allow you to win every German mission automatically!

"Feuer Frei" (the equivalent of "fire at will" in German) isn't the title of a Rammstein song fer nuthin'!

"...gefährlich ist wer schmerzen kennt..." ("...dangerous is the one who knows pain...")

P.S. Yes, I know "frei" ought not be capitalized; but actually it should, if only because it's part of a song title. (Just because I'm American doesn't mean I can't possibly know what I'm talking about when it comes to the German language, nor does it mean that I won't make mistakes thereabout.)

The same feature is also present for the Canadians: you only need to play Celine Dion for the whole campaign to win...

And Celine Dion is comparable to Rammstein...how?

What about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3hJ5-ngUow?!?!!1!?

[Sergei]

Why, what do you have against Celine??? Nothing sets the mood for your battle like "Did you give enough love"...

[Elmar Bijlsma]

Celine Dion is a WMD. Who wouldn't give up the fight when the Canucks threaten to play her music at you?

The Dutch auto-win to the tune of

Be sure to watch the accompanying Wallace and Gromit clip, as it is rather good

[Kat Johnston]

That Wallace and Gromit clip is brilliant.

[snake_eye]

There was never a word of discussion or suggestion or the least little hint about tweaking any nationalities' performance during development. Considering the number of times people have claimed total victories in scenarios that I had lost, perhaps in that particular scenario you were just lucky! Imagine your Marders blowing up instead of mopping up during that battle. All it would've taken was a couple lucky hits from the Red side.

Just to go back to work after these delightful entertainments

Hi, MickeyD,

In NATO “Germany march”, to be more precise, the mopping up happened in the final stage of the attack. The area had been rid of mostly all the defenders. That might explain that.

However, I was lucky to have a lot of IFV and tanks in that scenario and to choose safe approach ways after a cautious and long recon. Those made me avoid the right side, which would have been the end for me, if I had gone that way carelessly. Doing a left hook movement, I was able to destroy nearly all the red tanks before having the Marders platoons rolling onto the objectives, with the leopards, while others kept an overwatch on high grounds near the hills, on the left, a little bit farther from the line of departure. That explain my “luck” and the inability of the Red to destroy most of the attacking Marders. I got the objectives for sure, but the price to get there was high. Almost 25 % of KIA, WIA and MIA besides the IFV and tanks lost

Considering the result for a scenario played in Elite real Time , I consider that the A.I was pretty good and needless to say the scenario.

I got a DRAW and a Syrian Surrender

Blue 254 OK Red 160, 48 KIA red 281, 26 WIA Red 115, 9 MIA red 133, 3 Tanks lost Red 10, 10 AVL red 9, 1 OVL red 1 .

The best advices, besides luck, I could give would be these:

First, think always that the enemy is clever than you are, once assume, find the enemy positions and evaluate its forces by a sound recon. If you don't see anything, bring him to fire on you by moving around and disclose that way its positions. Take care of your flanks. Go for the high ground to overwatch him and have some suppressive fire on him, when needed. Then, once these have been done, make a choice for the attack and stick to it, you won't have time to change it once you get rolling.

Cheers

[LJFHutch]

My first match was a real-time on Stolz Von Bayern and I was thoroughly impressed. Gorgeous and highly functional maps as well as really good scenarios, Stolz is still my favourite, I'm enjoying every minute of NATO, good work

[shauny1987]

Great maps, great features, great campaign. Oh and Germans.

10/10.

[-Eddie-]

One thing that has particularly impressed me with NATO in general is the awesome APCs/IFVs. Yes, they're not as strong as the Bradley but the cannons are fantastic. Accurate, powerful and what I deem a high ROF.

One thing that confused me though, the Dutch CV9035 has the same armour protection as an AAV-7A1. Is this really right? I just assumed a newer IFV would have more protection than a 30/40 year old AAV. Maybe the CV9035 is better vs IEDs/mines?

[Sergei]

I don't know how accurately the armor tab information reflects the real capabilities of the vehicles in game - I see them more as very rough approximations, the actual protection can vary greatly depending on the hit spot and hit angle. But it wouldn't totally surprise me if AAV-7A1 with the latest enhanced armor kits would equal some of the latest IFV's in protection. CV90 has various kits available, too.

[Wodin]

I find the armour tab to be way to simplistic....I'd rather see some kind of number out or alot more graphical icons

[Fūrinkazan]

I've been playing for three days now, only QBs to see how the game works with the new module.

The good things :

A lot of new equipment with different tactics for every nations. Playing with the British troops was a different experience and that's the case with the three new nations.

You can now open fire with infantry inside of bmp's and other light Syrians vehicles. Dangerous but can be useful if you fight against light infantry without AT weapons.

Rpg, javelin, panzerfaust etc... teams won't reload if they have a move order. VERY useful. I tried to ambush vehicles and managed to avoid the returning fire. When in position, use the pause button and give a move order.

When the rocket, missile is flying, clic the pause button and your team is leaving without reloading. I still think that an emergency order should be useful for infantry, maybe with a moral penalty like in old CM.

The new QB's map and AI plans are cool. I was attacking with Gemans and everything was fine and i reached the target without any loss, destroying one BMP and one squad. Suddenly, the two other BMPs came to attack me from my rear.They destroyed the vehicles i had left in the back, thinking they were safe. The couter attack surprised me and what was an easy battle became a fierce fighting to keep my objective.

Things that i regret :

Infantry is sill using light anti-tank weapons in one salvo. I saw 5 rockets flying in the same time on one single tank. I think it's certainly unrealistic, i don't think that a squad would fire all its weapons from inside a building at the same time. It can be a problem because you are left without any AT weapon after one shot.

I did a lot of testing with sniper rifles and nothing was changed. I still think the 0.50 cal is not well modeled. I did one test with 3 rifles against 3 light vehicles equipped with AA gun. I noticed that each time, the first thing that was damaged were the wheels. After a few shots, one had is wheels destroyed but no other damage. I noticed impacts on the engine but no damage, strange. I would like to know if the damage model is like for tanks, with localisation of impact or if it's random. I think that at 600 m it's easier to hit the engine that the wheels. One single shot in the engine should stop the vehicle. I was watching the Mythbuster program on tv a few weeks ago and they made a bulletproof car with phone books. The "armor" was 3 phone books thick and they had dummies inside the vehicle to see if the passengers were hit. They tested many weapons from 9mm to 7.62 and everything was fine, no damage to passengers... Until the use three 0.50 caliber rifles. One shot from the flank in the engine and the car was stopped. One bullet went through the vehicle, passing the 2 doors and 2 time 3 phone books. The passengers were all hit.

So in the game this rifle should be used against soft vehicles very efficiently and even against light armored vehicles. I saw in interview of Marines in Irak saying they used this weapon to destroy objectives inside armored vehicles.

Against tanks, they should be able to damage optics, ir etc.. Guderian reported that during the battle of Kursk, some Panther tank had their main gun damaged and had to leave the battle due to AT rifles shots.

The QB system for selecting troops was not improved.

Possible bugs :

The new campaigns,scenarios and QB maps were not installed in the good directory and i had to copy paste them to find them in the game.

The Gilll AT missile has a 20 seconds delay to dismount the weapon and move. It seems that they move without delay. I had 5 of them placed in ambush on the flank of a Syrian attack and when ordered to move they started without delay.

So, a great module for me, except a very few frustrating things, i hope there will be other patch to improve the game, for exemple troops and vehicles moving for cover when catched under artillery fire like in old CM.

I think that we can expect to have new scenarios and campaigns much more interesting and challenging.

Thanks a lot to the Battlefront team,for this new module and for improving the game. Very promising for the future modules, i can't wait to see Normandy.

[RuhrRiver]

If this comment hasn't already been made, it seems to me that the way the individual soldiers in a unit spread out/deploy is more smooth and believable.

[Wodin]

If this comment hasn't already been made, it seems to me that the way the individual soldiers in a unit spread out/deploy is more smooth and believable.

Cool...most people moan they are to bunched up...

[Praetori]

One thing that confused me though, the Dutch CV9035 has the same armour protection as an AAV-7A1. Is this really right? I just assumed a newer IFV would have more protection than a 30/40 year old AAV. Maybe the CV9035 is better vs IEDs/mines?

Well I have no idea what IRL stats the Dutch ordered 9035 have. But the CV9040C is a very tough nut to crack. Troops in the "ballpool" have less protection than the crew and vital components. But at least there are several recent (2009-2010) cases where they've been hit in the sides by RPG-7s and shrugged it off (except for one case which injured a mounted trooper).

I'm far from an expert, but if the Dutch 9035 is similar to the 9040C variants then I'd wager to say it's a bit underprotected in the game.

[wolf66]

Played my first battle with germans - they hardly say anything in german or at all ......... hope they get more eloquent in other battles ...... that not yelling or talking or cursing doesn't really add atmosphere and immersion....

[Peter Panzer]

Played my first battle with germans - they hardly say anything in german or at all ......... hope they get more eloquent in other battles ...... that not yelling or talking or cursing doesn't really add atmosphere and immersion....

I noticed this too and came to the same conclusion.