Z-plan question

[david12345]

Multiplayer, I had a popup, my opponent went ahead with Z-plan. I assumed this was the Graff Zepplin as a carrier, but when I chose that against the AI, there was no popup. Is that what it is? I don't really think that the Graff was the Z-plan.

p.s. It would be really cool if the Germans could choose a REAL z-plan, with the battleships...

Also, creating Breast? there is already a port there, what is the pay back for the 100?

[xwormwood]

Breast, hignar-hihi.

You ment Brest, before your thoughts drifted away, am i right?

[PowerGmbH]

p.s. It would be really cool if the Germans could choose a REAL z-plan, with the battleships...

Also, creating Brest? there is already a port there, what is the pay back for the 100?

1) a real Plan Z was a sort "idle wish"; they could have said: ok lets go to Mars - totally out of reach. Even to finish this Carrier was a matter of impossibility... a Real Plan Z would maybe look like this: "If we invest each Round until 1942 the Sum of 450MPP ( which we don't have ) we will get the fleet Plan Z...

2)Brest for 100MPP: You can PLACE Naval units in Brest, you don't have to make the running the gauntlet through the Channel...

[david12345]

Breast, hignar-hihi.

You ment Brest, before your thoughts drifted away, am i right?

oppss!

I agree z-plan was fantasy, but I could see a toned down version..

[Emperor Elliott]

Upgrading Brest is a good idea if you are going for naval domination

[xwormwood]

oppss!

I agree z-plan was fantasy, but I could see a toned down version..

Well, after all it is a french city, so you were probably near to the truth after all.

[Gorgin]

Brest is, of course, also famous for chickens -- poulets de Brest -- Xwormword's fun with this, may never end ;-)

I mean, breasts and all - - -

[SeaMonkey]

Yeah right, Brest as a naval bastion, forget it, double strike carriers will kill anything there and double strike bombers will not only spot but reduce the port to zilch efficiency.

You'll need to park 8 fighters in range to intercept the strikes and research anti-air to the highest level.

Or just hope for rain and storms when you need to port something.

[Bill101]

I think the effectiveness of Brest depends on when in the game you try to make the most of it, as the U-Boats you deploy there can be very effective at dealing with the enemy carriers, or at least at making them keep a respectable distance. Consequently in my experience it has been pretty useful up until 1942-3 when Allied airpower based in southern England can get a bit too hot to handle, but it also depends on your opponent too.

Later in the war the upgrade doesn't help you at all, but by then you'll be lucky to have Brest anyway!

[Big Al]

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_Z

Z-plan

The Plan

The plan as it came about would have seen the completion of the two battleships under construction (Bismarck and Tirpitz) to an interim design, as well as three heavy cruisers (Admiral Hipper, Blücher and Prinz Eugen), plus a further two launched in 1939, before the major construction work began. The plan was then to have the majority finished by 1945:

Four aircraft carriers, (two of the Graf Zeppelin-class, plus two others)

Six H-Class battleships

Three "O Class" battlecruisers

12 "Kreuzer P Class" Panzerschiffe

Two further Hipper-class heavy cruisers (Seydlitz, and Lützow)

Four "M-Class" light cruisers

Two "Improved M-Class" light cruisers

Six "Spähkreuzer-class" large destroyers

Construction begin on the aircraft carrier Graf Zeppelin in 1936, with a second planned to begin in 1938. In mid 1939, following the launch of both Bismarck and Tirpitz, the keels of the first three improved battleships were laid, while orders were placed for the modified Messerschmitt Bf 109 fighters and Junkers Ju 87 dive bombers to equip the aircraft carriers. However, with the outbreak of World War II, it was decided that the large and expensive construction projects required too much of the materials vital to keep the Heer (the German army) and Luftwaffe up and running. As a consequence, work on the battleships was halted, and the materials were diverted to the construction of U-boats. Some Bf 109Ts were completed, though later stripped of their carrier equipment and stationed in Norway.

[xwormwood]

I would like to recommend this webside:

http://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/zplan/index.html

After an short introduction you can learn quite a bit about the Z-Plan.

[SeaMonkey]

I think the effectiveness of Brest depends on when in the game you try to make the most of it, as the U-Boats you deploy there can be very effective at dealing with the enemy carriers, or at least at making them keep a respectable distance. Consequently in my experience it has been pretty useful up until 1942-3 when Allied airpower based in southern England can get a bit too hot to handle, but it also depends on your opponent too.

Later in the war the upgrade doesn't help you at all, but by then you'll be lucky to have Brest anyway!

Hey Bill, how many bombers are available to the Allies by the Summer of 1940(without MPP purchase)? It seems to me my opponent has two deployed into Southern England pretty soon after the fall of France when Brest becomes operational. How many strikes is that on the port per turn? My math says 4, so that means four fighters needed to intercept and if somehow they get a TAC or fighter into the mix....well???

Perhaps your right, I need more practice, need to try some more aggressive strategies with the German Uboats. I'll give it a shot.

[Bill101]

I think it depends on what strategy they use, and my opponents haven't tended to invest quite so heavily in bombers that early on. It's true that they can have two bombers after the fall of France (one British and one Canadian), but upgrading them to make them useful, and escorting them with decent fighters costs them MPPs. If they have invested too much in this, then they will have neglected something else which it may be possible to take advantage of, such as their garrisons in Egypt.

The thing is also that by upgrading Brest, units can be deployed in the area around it too, and they can use Bordeaux as their supply point (because that should be out of range of any early war bombers, one would hope!).

In my own games as Axis I haven't yet found the Allied bomber power to be too powerful too early, but it really depends on the strategies used and if one strategy does start coming up trumps and making the Decision Event to upgrade Brest unworthwhile then we may have to change a few things. So, give it a shot in a few games and I hope your U-Boats have better luck!