vonRocko Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 One of the selling points for a preorder game, was a printed manual. What a joke that is! Did you guys see this manual? the type is so small, a magnifying glass won't help. Then they cram 2 pages of text onto 1 manual page! Completely worthless. I'll need to waste my ink to print it out from the pdf. This will be my last pre order. I like the game but the printed manual was a cheap sales ploy. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkgregerson87 Posted March 14, 2010 Share Posted March 14, 2010 yeah, I was a bit disturbed by the game manual for pre-orders too. Whoever had the idea for the 'printed-manual' joke must be the same guy who brought us the 'Sea Monkeys' from the comic book days. Also, I'm not liking the orientation of the manual too. But I guess since it's almost unreadable, that is the least of my concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Sorry to hear that you feel this way. Personally, I find the manual absolutely readable despite the small fonts. The manual is large, about 200 pages. Only about 100 will fit into a DVD box. So we had to make a choice - either split the manual in half and print one half and leave the other, or print it in full in the way we did. The former would have been nicer looking but less practical, because you'd have half of the manual in PDF only, and half in print. The latter is looking less nice, but it's more practical, because you have everything in one printed reference. There are pro's and con's for both approaches - and we have in fact chosen differently for a couple of games in the past. For SC Global we felt that a FULL printed manual was the better choice, especially because the print is very clear, so even the small fonts are absolutely readable. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonRocko Posted March 15, 2010 Author Share Posted March 15, 2010 Sorry to hear that you feel this way. Personally, I find the manual absolutely readable despite the small fonts. Martin What are you, a hawk? I wish I had your eyes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted March 15, 2010 Share Posted March 15, 2010 Heh, no, I actually am short-sighted on one eye and far-sighted on the other. Makes for an interesting experience occasionally The font size used is 6 point I think. No doubt small, but due to the crisp print I find it readable. Perhaps not for hours on end. Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Elliott Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 OK. But I havent even gotten it yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgin Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 I haven't received it yet either, but it seems a bit counter-logical to base the font size of the printed manual on the number of pages you have to fit into a DVD case ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsmm Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Generally I don't like to criticize technicalities, but the manual was unsatisfactory to say the least. Naturally it doesn't have to be in a DVD case, it could have been wrapped separately, and or just put outside the mail envelope, and marked as fragile. I'm fairly certain that nobody would have been opposed to this. On top of that about 10-15 of my pages were already ripped out, and to say the least the rest needs an electronic microscope to read. It's like the "fine print" in a contract; only thankfully it won't cost a lot of money and distress. Once again it's silly to complain about this as I can just print my own manual out, and probably will as this game has changed from other expansions. Personally though I'm disappointed at the game in general. I just feel like Hubert and company didn't perform to the expectations they should have. This probably was the hardest game they put out there, but it still wasn't anywhere near what I was expecting. Obviously you can't please everyone, and I'll still continue to be one of battlefront (Hubert's) best customers, but I have to hope they will step it up a notch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualfan Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 I have never posted on this forum before, but your manual drove me to register. I appreciate that management reads and responds to this forum. The game has been interesting so far - it reminds me of AH's Third Reich. Having said all of that, the manual is a complete joke! Given your usual standards, I was stunned and disappointed when I opened it up. I can't believe you actually thought this was a good idea. I dare anyone to read page 158 without going blind. As a reference manual, it is useless. Increase the font, reprint and do right by your loyal customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 I can't believe you actually thought this was a good idea. Not a "good idea" but the best of two evils. The two options are: Either we split the manual and print only a portion of it to fit into the case, or we squeeze the manual within the 96 pages we have to fit into the case. Both have drawbacks and none of them is ideal, but those are the choices we have. (To see how people are "liking" the other choice of printing a partial manual, have a look inside the TOW Kursk forum...) BTW, we cannot print a manual that is bigger than the DVD box since we are shipping finished goods for sale "on the shelf" by our distribution partners. I dare anyone to read page 158 without going blind. I can read page 158 fine. None of the text or letters is blurry. It's small but readable. We went with hi-quality paper and print to ensure that it is. Again - ideal? No. But the only other alternative would have been that you would have to look up page 158 (and 100+ other pages) in your PDF file. Anyway, the printed manual is nearly sold out already... Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkgregerson87 Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Well I'm not buying the argument by some that they can read the manual for more than 5 min without getting a headache. So what if maybe 5% of the customers can read the manual with no problems. What about the other 95% of us that feel 'cheated' out of a decent reference manual. Well the one good thing to come from the difficult to read manual is that I usually post more and learn more about my issue than the manual could have told me. However, I think I piss people off like 'Sea Monkey' who wonder why I don't refer to the manual before posting. Where there exist at least a PDF verison of the manual to alt-tab to:rolleyes:? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Elliott Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Ya well i am not ready to make any judgements yet. I just cant wait tell i get mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Well I'm not buying the argument by some that they can read the manual for more than 5 min without getting a headache. So what if maybe 5% of the customers can read the manual with no problems. What about the other 95% of us that feel 'cheated' out of a decent reference manual. Well the one good thing to come from the difficult to read manual is that I usually post more and learn more about my issue than the manual could have told me. However, I think I piss people off like 'Sea Monkey' who wonder why I don't refer to the manual before posting. Where there exist at least a PDF verison of the manual to alt-tab to:rolleyes:? There is a PDF manual installed with the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowstorm Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 I think he means a PDF manual that can be referenced "in game" Moon. Not a bad idea though, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Elliott Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 well if you press alt tab you can change windows quickly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgin Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 BTW, we cannot print a manual that is bigger than the DVD box since we are shipping finished goods for sale "on the shelf" by our distribution partners. Martin: You can't be serious. Where are you selling "off the shelf"? Estonia? What percentage of your customers DON'T buy off the shelf? Also, please note that many suppliers have more than one package format to accomodate different retail requirements. This isn't rocket science. I've just been looking at the manual for SC2 Blitzkreig -- nice job, that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowstorm Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Gorgin, Yes, I noticed that myself, still have the old manual on my desk. Although, in all fairness, that old one is 150 pages, GC's is 200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgin Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Snowstorm: Yeh, I can see where those extra 50 pages really are a game-changer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fintilgin Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Personally though I'm disappointed at the game in general. I just feel like Hubert and company didn't perform to the expectations they should have. This probably was the hardest game they put out there, but it still wasn't anywhere near what I was expecting. Obviously you can't please everyone, and I'll still continue to be one of battlefront (Hubert's) best customers, but I have to hope they will step it up a notch. I'm enjoying it, but I do sort of understand where you're coming from. It does have the feel of an expansion pack/scenario pack rather then a full priced game. Things like the fact that it's a global game that uses loop arrow 'hacks' instead of a real looping map, or the Antarctic oil resources with a printed on-map note to ignore them. It feels more like a really well polished and balanced fan mod then an actual new game. I do feel like the series has really hit the limit of what the current engine can really do and that the last few versions we've been paying full price for what amounts to the 'same game' with a few small new features like carriers or the supply map mode. That being said, I'm willing to cut Battlefront an awful lot of slack because it really is a niche series made by a 'one-man-band' sort of company. I've enjoyed the games and don't regret purchasing them, but I do hope that whatever project comes next is either an entirely new game or a SC3 built completely fresh from the ground up. (With hexes. Dang, even Civilization 5 is moving to hexes.) As to the manual, it is tiny to the point of being not very useful. Much more pleasant to alt-tab out and read it on the screen. But it was a freebie, and a nice thought so I don't really have any strong feelings about it one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor Elliott Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Also another question? when am i getting my manual. i live in canada but why is it taking so long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgin Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Elliott: I'm Canada too (Toronto, no less -- Canda Post's business centre) and I haven't received mine either. Although from what I read here, we're not missing much. I wonder if HC (also in T.O.) has received his. And is he happy with Fury's promotional and marketing efforts on behalf of his "baby" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeaMonkey Posted March 16, 2010 Share Posted March 16, 2010 Come on kirk, you don't PO me, sure I might be a little disappointed that there's a world full of sheople that don't pay attention, but hey...nothing I can do about that but recognize it. I was once a newbie to this game and missed a lot of the obvious, I was once younger and missed a whole lot more than a few game details, like life's details, and they hurt a lot worse when you miss them.:eek: I'm older now and I can read this manual without visual aid, but I work in a lab and I examine a lot of small increments of measurements, like scales on mercury thermometers, so I'm trained...conditioned. That being said, the print is a touch small, but under a bright light, readable, not bedtime literature for sure, nor the bathroom either, but if you were looking for gold I bet everyone wouldn't be having such a tough time. I'm going to printout some of the PDF file. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PowerGmbH Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Must say that i once received a Manual from Sid Meiers Civilization 4 with about 2-300 exellently presented Pages , and i never looked into it; i wonder there are even people looking and reading Manuals.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Also another question? when am i getting my manual. i live in canada but why is it taking so long From previous experience, it's probably Canadian customs We've seen some delays there when shipping from the US in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I've just been looking at the manual for SC2 Blitzkreig -- nice job, that one! Yes, it was. This type of manual comes from a time when digital delivery represented about 10% of the games we sell. It was possible then to do large enough print runs to make these large manuals without having them cost $10 a piece. This time has gone. Customers have voted (and are voting daily) with their $, and they are telling us that the majority want a download only. This means that the cost for printing has gone up as the print runs have shrunk, increasing the cost per copy beyond what would be sustainable to produce these huge books. If the trend continues, at some point there will be no printed manuals at all anymore, I'm afraid to say. For everyone complaining here about the manual, there are 10 people complaining about the Shipping&Handling and the extra $10 for "download&mail delivery". Sometimes, there are people that complain about both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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