WWII Global Scenario Idea: Global Bunta

[JerseyJohn]

None of that has anything to do with the scenario, which concerns the global situation following the European War ending in 1940 with a negotiated peace; British and French Empires in tact with Germany picking up its Belgian and Dutch colonial marbles. You just posted your usual flag waving crapola. It's too bad you can't post when you actually have something to say.

And, yes, the United States would have been very concerned about Germany controlling the Congo, with its URANIUM, and huge sources of other resources.

-- And much more concerned about Germany occupying the East Indies and selling its oil, rubber, and numerous other raw materials to the Japanese, as well as helping to fill their own requirements.

[jon_j_rambo]

None of that has anything to do with the scenario, which concerns the global situation following the European War ending in 1940 with a negotiated peace; British and French Empires in tact with Germany picking up its Belgian and Dutch colonial marbles. You just posted your usual flag waving crapola. It's too bad you can't post when you actually have something to say.

And, yes, the United States would have been very concerned about Germany controlling the Congo, with its URANIUM, and huge sources of other resources.

-- And much more concerned about Germany occupying the East Indies and selling its oil, rubber, and numerous other raw materials to the Japanese, as well as helping to fill their own requirements.

Yes, has everything to do with this scenario. The Japanese Army was a garrison army against the United States. It was no match for "sitting on islands" selling bananas, oil, & rubber to Germany.

1) Early as Summer 1942, the US Navy was already at an advantage over the Jap Navy. This is without any prepareness for WW-2.

2) The Jap Army did not have the ability to maintain their own supplies to troops on Islands, let alone ship supplies across the globe.

3) There's no way the Japs could provide one resource to Nazi Germany, it's a pipe dream.

4) The Germans couldn't even hold a port in North Africa, let along go shopping for Uranium in Congo.

5) This whole thing of England just sitting idle with their Navy in the MedFront, Atlantic, shipping lanes to Congo, Japan, wherever is a joke.

Do you understand what it takes to run a Navy? Do you understand the range, firepower, and abilities of the US/UK Navies compared to the Germans?

Why don't we all just surrender because of the charisma of Adolf Hitler. He lives until 1984, and is Time Man of the Year, every year.

[jon_j_rambo]

None of that has anything to do with the scenario, You just posted your usual flag waving crapola.

Yes, you insult any post that has a positive reflection of the United States that is BASED ON FACTS.

The Japanese infantry was inferior in training, abilities, miltiary strategy, etc....against the US Marine. The only success the Japs had were early on when the USA was surprise attacked...Phillipines, Death March.....I'll give the Japs a stalemate in ability at Guadalcanal. Look at the deaths on both sides in any battle.

This doesn't it going into Naval war into the Pacific. The US fighting mind, and strategy absolutely ruled the Pacific. Battle after Battle the Japs LOST. The Japs had superior numbers in most of the battle too, what a joke.

So I bring up the US success storis and I'm a flag waver. Yes, guess I am.

thank you,

-Legend

[PowerGmbH]

The United States is going to WASTE their time with Congo & all this other crap in WW2, is this a joke?

Well JJRambo, Congo was not a "waste time" for Allied forces, read well this affirmation:

"80% of the uranium later used in the Manhattan project came from the Shinkolobwe deposit in Belgian Congo." Interisting, no?

http://www.fredsakademiet.dk/library/uran.pdf

I think Allied needed quite a lot of Raw materials from the Colonies for their effort...

[Kuniworth]

According to my world war 2 univeristy professor both british, german and russian were way better than their american counterpart during the war. What american forces had was overwhelming firepower to compensate.

[jon_j_rambo]

@Kuniworth --- I never compared the US vs European infantry in my post, did I? Why don't you comment on what was stated. Amazing, anything pro-USA on this site which is FACT, is attacked. We won the war just because of firepower......well, that's war, son. If the Nazis were so smart at war, they should have taken some boots to Stalingrad. Battles are won/lost before they are started. If the Russians were so great, they wouldn't have walled in their people. Reminds me of Rocky movie with the Russian,"At least we don't have to build a wall to keep our people in" --- Paulie, Rocky's brother-in-law.

Far as your Swedish University Professor, I'm glad you have a friend. Maybe you guys can meet in a social neutral coffee shop, swap gummy bear stories. Sweden was buddies with the Nazis, so it doesn't surprise me a bit. I couldn't even imagine what they teach over there. As for me, I'll stick with Oliver North's War Stories on FOX.

[jon_j_rambo]

Well JJRambo, Congo was not a "waste time" for Allied forces, read well this affirmation:

"80% of the uranium later used in the Manhattan project came from the Shinkolobwe deposit in Belgian Congo." Interisting, no?

http://www.fredsakademiet.dk/library/uran.pdf

I think Allied needed quite a lot of Raw materials from the Colonies for their effort...

That wasn't the context of my message. Mine was the Germans certainly weren't waltzing to the sounds of "Ride of the Valkerye" to pick up their precious supplies. The Royal Navy & US Navy ruled the seas. The Germans couldn't even maintain a port in North Africa, let alone taking ships to Western Africa.

[Kuniworth]

@Kuniworth --- I never compared the US vs European infantry in my post, did I? Why don't you comment on what was stated. Amazing, anything pro-USA on this site which is FACT, is attacked. We won the war just because of firepower......well, that's war, son. If the Nazis were so smart at war, they should have taken some boots to Stalingrad. Battles are won/lost before they are started. If the Russians were so great, they wouldn't have walled in their people. Reminds me of Rocky movie with the Russian,"At least we don't have to build a wall to keep our people in" --- Paulie, Rocky's brother-in-law.

Far as your Swedish University Professor, I'm glad you have a friend. Maybe you guys can meet in a social neutral coffee shop, swap gummy bear stories. Sweden was buddies with the Nazis, so it doesn't surprise me a bit. I couldn't even imagine what they teach over there. As for me, I'll stick with Oliver North's War Stories on FOX.

Good grief where did I wrote that this was a reply to you?

[jon_j_rambo]

According to my world war 2 univeristy professor both british, german and russian were way better than their american counterpart during the war. What american forces had was overwhelming firepower to compensate.

By the way, I have attended both public & private universities. You got a link to the school & professor's profile? Have two degrees from two different state univerities in Banking & Engineering. I also have certficates in many other subjects. Who have you read, I've read it.

[jon_j_rambo]

Good grief where did I wrote that this was a reply to you?

Ah, Hello, nice try.

[Gorgin]

JJR wrote: "Reminds me of Rocky movie with the Russian,"At least we don't have to build a wall to keep our people in" --- Paulie, Rocky's brother-in-law."

No, son, that was JFK in West Berlin on June 26, 1963.

You've got to stop getting your history and "facts" from Hollywood

[jon_j_rambo]

JJR wrote: "Reminds me of Rocky movie with the Russian,"At least we don't have to build a wall to keep our people in" --- Paulie, Rocky's brother-in-law."

No, son, that was JFK in West Berlin on June 26, 1963.

You've got to stop getting your history and "facts" from Hollywood

Seeing that Rocky IV was release in the 1980s, yes, JFK had a time advantage. There's nothing wrong with Paulie sharing President Kennedy's belief. President Ronald Reagan also drove home the point in both belief & action. I love many of the US Presidents. President George Washington is my fav.

Thanks pal,"Ich bin ein Legend",

-Legend

[JerseyJohn]

That wasn't the context of my message. Mine was the Germans certainly weren't waltzing to the sounds of "Ride of the Valkerye" to pick up their precious supplies. The Royal Navy & US Navy ruled the seas. The Germans couldn't even maintain a port in North Africa, let alone taking ships to Western Africa.

If that's your context it means you have no idea of what we're talking about. The scenario is set after a negotiated peace in Europe. Germany is NOT at war. It's sending garrisons to claim the Belgian Congo and the Dutch East Indies after conquering Belgium and Holland.

[jon_j_rambo]

If that's your context it means you have no idea of what we're talking about. The scenario is set after a negotiated peace in Europe. Germany is NOT at war and sending a garrison to claim the (conquered) Belgium Congo.

Yes, I'm aware of the charismatic Nazis, what they did, and all of the 'What IFs'. You have motivated me to relearn history & truth to a broader understanding & unity. I now know, to accept the disappointing actions of the marvelous people's of Germania. If only Adolf Hitler would have made diplomatic peace with the United States, France, & the United Kingdom, he could have not only been Time Man of the Year 1936, he could have been the most important man in the 20th Century. By going down a different subscribed path to share their culture, we all could be enjoying their fine fruits in the year 2010.

I'm excited to learn more about your German truths. I also look forward to you opening my eyes to the evils of the United States that I wasn't aware. These sudden discoveries are shocking, I've been so blinded by happiness, freedom, & opportunity.

I also confess, I'm responsibe for the plight of the problems in this world. My goals of achievement are meaningless unless we can all be equals. Equal in finances, skills, beliefs, or whatever subject you open up. As I work & live daily, I understand I'm bad for wanting to use resources of MotherEarth.

I am the axis of evil, forgive me MotherEarth. I look forward to your GLOBAL BUNTA final solution and the years which 'lie' ahead.

-Legend

[JerseyJohn]

:D

[Kuniworth]

Hey guys drop it, on the same side here.

[JerseyJohn]

I keep hearing that, Kuni, but what exactly have I done other than to try and clarify totally absurd statements being made about a scenario I've been proposing?

At the other thread I was personally attacked. Unprovoked, and I reported it to the moderators.

And no, I don't think we're on the same side. I think another party is trying to get this thread locked or, failing that, to obscure the whole point with a lot of nonsensical jibberish.

So how about not making this a two person issue. It isn't, I'm on the receiving end and someone else is on the flinging end.

[jon_j_rambo]

I keep hearing that too Kuni. I've been personally attacked, my beliefs, my country. Even at Buntaland, he's playing god, banned me there & destroyed all my posts. Now Jersey tattletales to the moderators after insulting me. I have done the same, although I hate to get him in trouble. I've including witnesses on the private message, Kuni included.

[Kuniworth]

Get it guys it's not about right or wrong or what have been said or done or not. It's about stepping down a defcon level and let it slide. The important part is to ask yourself what you now personally can DO to get this to cool down. And then act accordingly.

Be smart, act to solve this thing.

[Snowstorm]

I have an idea. Honestly.

I propose (perhaps naively) that no one post on this thread for 24 hours (let's say until 7:PM Eastern Standard Time), and see if we can let this all settle down and talk about just what this thread is all about. If agreed, obviously, no response to this post is necessary. Let's try it.

[JerseyJohn]

Okay, Snowstorm, 24 hours and more have passed. I hope we've got your permission to post here again.

Thanks for suggesting a cooling off period. It was a good idea. My thanks also to my friend Kuniworth for being concerned and coming in to help calm things down.

Enough from me about those posts, they're in the past. Time to move forward.

-- I've been thinking a lot about the historical situation this scenario discusses and am presently working on an alternative history novel with the conditions described here as the basic world situation.

To elaborate a bit:

*In addition to the 10 year nonaggression pact between Germany, UK and France, Germany proposses and has accepted a Triple Defensive Alliance between the three countries.

*Territorial concessions. In addition to the strip of Northern France extending from Sedan to the Flanders coast, Germany also receives the island of Madagasscar. In exchange Germany guarantees the French right to garrison its Eastern Mediteranean territory.

-- Historically the SS extended propossals to Hitler after the fall of France to deport Europe's Jewish population to the island, which, at the time, was a fever ridden hellhole. Additionally it was so far away from Europe as to not figure in it at all. *In the novel it will turned into an SS ruled colony with the luftwaffe and kriegsmarine having bases on it.

*Britain returns the German African colonies it seized in the First World War. In return Germany guarantees Britain's right to garrison Gibraltar, Malta, Egypt and its Middle Eastern territories.

** Japan influences the East Indies to declare independence from Germany and claims to be the new nation's protector. In return the newly founded Indonesia agrees to fill Japan's oil and rubber needs, along with various other essential resource demands.

** The United States influences the Congo to declare its own independence from Germany, pledging to assist it in the event of any foreign power attempting to subjugate the new nation.

-- -- Germany is in the position of trying to keep what should be its two most prized colonies, turned independent nations, one protected by the United States, and the other by the Reich's supposed ally, Japan.

Planning to make Admiral Wilhelm Kanaris (the anti-Nazi head of the Abwhere [sorry if it's spelled wrong] one of the main characters, along with the wartime head of the US special operations. I think his name was Wild Bill Hallahan.

The story will, hopefully, be something like what Harry Turtledove has done with his own alternative history novels.

[arado234]

JerseyJohn it all seems possible what you have written but with Hitler and Stalin in power I cant see there ever be any lasting peace(not even 10years).Sooner or latter one or both of them is going to stir the pot.Imho the only way it could work would be if Hitler and Nazism Stalin and Communism as he see it would also have to be eliminated.

[JerseyJohn]

Arado,

I agree 100%, sooner or later there would have to be a war between Stalin and Hitler, with Hitler almost certainly starting it.

The main idea here is that Germany would be securing its western door through binding treaties with defeated Britain and France. The Three Power Defensive Alliance would be designed to cover Germany in the event of an attack on the Indies by Japan, and the Congo by the United States -- both in the name of defending those areas independence.

At Buntaland Xwormwood had a brilliant idea he gave me, that Germany cedes both the Congo and Indonesia to France and gets Madagascar in exchange. France agrees to an exclusive trade policy with Germany for all raw materials produced from both Congo and Indonesia.

I think that would be great. Under that clause any country going into those territories would be at war with France, Germany and Britain. :eek: A strange turn around.

He's also convinced me that Germany would not keep that strip of Northern France between Sedan and Flanders. In the novel I'm going to have it turned into a demilitarized zone -- a German rub reminding France of the Rhineland clause in the Versailles Treaty.

-- Anyway, with Germany in the Low Countries and Norway, there wouldn't be a need for occupying any of France.

[xwormwood]

...that strip of Northern France between Sedan and Flanders. In the novel I'm going to have it turned into a demilitarized zone -- a German rub reminding France of the Rhineland clause in the Versailles Treaty.

Fantastic idea! Very good, Sir Jersey!

That is exactly how Hitler could have done it, a demilitarized zone in France.

Thats what i call brilliant!

I could even imagine a whole german nation smirking when reading about this in the news.

This rubbing is truly historical, as Hitler forced the poor French to sign the armitice in the very same rail waggon where once the imperial german forces in 1918 had to do their signings.

[JerseyJohn]

Thank you, BrotherX. Very glad you like it. I think between the two of us we've come up with some interesting twists.

My theory is that brilliant ideas come from sharing thoughts with brilliant friends. :cool: