Does AI cheat?

[lordxorn]

Brit grrreat game BTW!

I have been playing the demo for a couple days, and I am really impressed with this and I plan to buy it as soon as my Commander in Chief (Wife) approves my funding request.

I was just wondering if you allow the AI to cheat to make it more challenging for us players. Because I have fielded an army a quarter of the size of the AI and I am having food issues.

While I have not fully gather intel on the AI and how much resources he has, the size of his army makes it seem there not enough food on the whole map.

I also have all the food techs researched.

At least I think for the demo, don't know if registered version has more techs then demo.

Also, for those people comparing this to Empire Deluxe Enhanced, this game is light years ahead of that. Which I guess is a good thing, because my expectations were low.

[Brit]

Brit grrreat game BTW!

I have been playing the demo for a couple days, and I am really impressed with this and I plan to buy it as soon as my Commander in Chief (Wife) approves my funding request.

I was just wondering if you allow the AI to cheat to make it more challenging for us players. Because I have fielded an army a quarter of the size of the AI and I am having food issues.

While I have not fully gather intel on the AI and how much resources he has, the size of his army makes it seem there not enough food on the whole map.

I also have all the food techs researched.

At least I think for the demo, don't know if registered version has more techs then demo.

Also, for those people comparing this to Empire Deluxe Enhanced, this game is light years ahead of that. Which I guess is a good thing, because my expectations were low.

Thanks.

Yeah, unfortunately, the AI does cheat. I started out creating a non-cheating AI, and found it to be very difficult. I still want to build a non-cheating AI for the game. (Maybe I'll slowly erode the AI cheats over time as I improve the AI.) The reason I moved away from a non-cheating AI is because it's hard to program and hard to make it competent. That's not to say it's impossible, but it's hard enough that it's frustrating and takes more time to create it. And, when it takes more time, it causes the game to be delayed. Like I said, I would prefer to have a non-cheating AI in the game, so I'd like to work towards that.

[lordxorn]

I appreciate your always prompt response, and I can also respect the design decision. I can't imagine all the time it would take to really create an AI that doesn't cheat, I guess I will have to really focus my over all strategy.

[John DiFool the 2nd]

Well, in my most current game, I am in an arms race with Mao that I likely cannot win, because the bugger apparently has a production bonus, and his massive food shortage, as indicated by the trade screen, isn't hampering him one bit (or causing his cities to shrink). He currently has a massive stack of ships (6 battlewagons and a bunch of other stuff)-I tried to engage it with a stack of my own which I thought was only slightly inferior, only to see my entire task force wiped out in a single turn, with only a few of his ships lost. My planes are worthless-occasionally they'll get a single hit, but most of the time they are shot down.

[Rosseau]

Thanks for the upfront response on the AI. When time allows, I'm sure many of us would like to get more info on just what level the AI cheats at so we can better understand and design new scenarios. Thanks.

[Boris Balaban]

Well, in my most current game, I am in an arms race with Mao that I likely cannot win, because the bugger apparently has a production bonus, and his massive food shortage, as indicated by the trade screen, isn't hampering him one bit (or causing his cities to shrink). He currently has a massive stack of ships (6 battlewagons and a bunch of other stuff)-I tried to engage it with a stack of my own which I thought was only slightly inferior, only to see my entire task force wiped out in a single turn, with only a few of his ships lost. My planes are worthless-occasionally they'll get a single hit, but most of the time they are shot down.

Bombers and nuks and your own BBs also get him close to your ART or get them close to him.

[reverend]

To what extent does the AI cheat? Production / research bonus, supply bonus, ...?

[Clarke]

I think cheating is too harsh. Brit has explained the general design philosophy at least twice. The AI gets a pass on certain things to speed up the game and speed the development of the game. It is not designed to cheat to give us a tougher task with the exception of research a research bonus at veteran and elite.

I too would like to know more about how the AI actually plays the game. Both for setting up a rule set I'm working on and simply to be able to play. I spent considerable time isolating an enemy by taking all their resources and leaving them with three cities on two islands. I basically besieged them rather than invading as my initial strategy because they were quite strong on those two islands.

I was dismayed to find after about twenty turns that they had not grown weaker, but were even stronger and their city populations had not declined at all.

I would like to know what rules we are using before I go messing with the food units use per turn as an example. Right now I don't have any idea how reducing food used by units will affect the AI.

[Deadmeat1471]

To be honest, no one has created an AI which is truly a challenge without some elements of 'cheating'. Whilst id like as Brit to refine the amount in which the ai relies on this to survive, i accept it will have to remain.

I dont think it hinders gameplay though

[Emmeth]

I played really few games but I already was under the impression of an AI cheating, somehow, since the beginning.

Do you know if reducing the tech speed affects every AI inside the game and also the human player ?

Other then that I guess it is enough to reduce AI opponent's production rate of let's say 20-30% to compensate a bit the AI cheating, I think.

Until now what irrititates me most is the fact that when you declare war against an AI player few turns later, pretty much everyone will be against you....why ????

One can argue there are peacy treaties in place among AI players....that's not true, they simply want to **** you all together in a big party

[Kelly's Heros]

One for all and all for one I say. LOL. **** em right back I say. :-) funny post Emmeth and I've seen the AI respond similarly too.

What say you Brit, does the AI gang **** you after you attack one opponent?

[Innocence]

I've seen the AI respond similarly too.

Ditto, last two games the two Elite AI's declared war on me just one turn apart (both were Neutral to me before). One of them I hadn't even met yet

Looks like the AI gets instant unit upgrades without having to go back and upgrade. I was hunting a lvl I Transport on open sea, and at the beginning of the next turn it changed to a lvl II Transport.

The AI doesn't seem to suffer from shortages either (food, oil).

[Emmeth]

Looks like the AI gets instant unit upgrades without having to go back and upgrade. I was hunting a lvl I Transport on open sea, and at the beginning of the next turn it changed to a lvl II Transport.

The AI doesn't seem to suffer from shortages either (food, oil).

Yesterday evening it was late and I was quite tired but before quitting the game I fired few friendly nuke ICBMs on an enemy group made of half a dozen tanks class 4 sitting on open plains. They didn't get hurt , none of them get hurt.

Was I too tired or does it happen for real in the game ?

[Brit]

Yesterday evening it was late and I was quite tired but before quitting the game I fired few friendly nuke ICBMs on an enemy group made of half a dozen tanks class 4 sitting on open plains. They didn't get hurt , none of them get hurt.

Was I too tired or does it happen for real in the game ?

There's a bug in the current version that miscalculates area-blast damage when you target mobile units. It'll be fixed in the next update.

[Brit]

One for all and all for one I say. LOL. **** em right back I say. :-) funny post Emmeth and I've seen the AI respond similarly too.

What say you Brit, does the AI gang **** you after you attack one opponent?

There's a whole bunch of information that the AI is using to decide who and when to attack. One of the problems is that the AI was realizing that people who are already at war are easier targets. This is because they're already tied up fighting someone else. The unfortunate side effect of this is that the AI had a tendency to gang-up on people. This is corrected in the next update.

[drrowley]

seen that happen aswell. all though the nuc's have a range of distruction, it is not a very large diameter. i fired at a group (or thought was a group) and some died and others didn't. zooming in closer, could see that they were actually spread out. i do believe the nuc's distruct diameter should be expanded. (another time, a stack of 10+ units should up as a solid bright diamond in the fog, right next to a city, which i zoomed in and targeted with a icbm right in the middle. the whole stack was gone next turn, drop paratroops in and took the undamaged city).

i have never played any game that the ai doesn't cheat in some way. boosted production/research i find is a crutch. game i am in right now, the oddiest thing is that the ai has put together this 40+ stack that is sitting on the farthest north/west point of the it's continent. in other games, this generally meant the stack was trying to move to some spot off the continent. in this game i have seen groups move to edges of island/continent to be picked up by a transport. but this particular ai has 10+ transports scattered about and so far, haven't seen any move for 'several' turns (i have several satellites).

as far as ai declaring war, have seen several different things happen. currently, there are 5 elite ai's and by current turn (123), NONE, have declared war on me. they have been bickering between each other since turn 60. i declared war on one, not current one, because it was encroaching on a continent i was on, reduced him to single island. he has a couple of 15+ stack's and got a cease fire, with 10+ sams' it would be tough nut to crack. ai finally build a transport and with "one" tank, is off for someplace (being tailled by a crusor). all the other ai's all so declared war on this guy, but have done nothing about it. i have had other games where by turn 70, all the ai's have declared war on me. i haven't figured out why the do/don't declare war yet. at one time, i thought that once they filled out all neutral citys/resources, then they start looking for those to take. but in this current game, i was stunned to find unoccupied lands behind the groups.

>ai programming is very complicated and will take time.

>adding/changing units means the ai has to be programmed to use it.

>if people want very precise ai, turns could take 'minutes'.

i too, am a beer&pretsel player, so i don't care. i would like it challenging, with out having big cheats. the upgrading in the field, i sorta don't care (can be a shock to think your attacking level6 tanks, only to find they have become level7).

2c

d

edit: was writing this when brit answered...

[Innocence]

i have never played any game that the ai doesn't cheat in some way

Well, Chess, Checkers and Ping-Pong AI's don't cheat, but no, not any game of this complexity

If choice is between a hopeless and a cheating AI, I'll take the cheating one anytime Focus on making it dangerous by using coordinated invasions and diversions, don't waste too much time teaching it to handle resource shortages, upgrades etc. like normal players.