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Quick flamethrower question (answer needed!)


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Ah...Yes, the good ole CM Super Flamethrowers.

IMHO, Flamethrowers should be banned from being used in CM as they are overmoddled ( along with half-squads and Submg Squads ).

At the very most, you could use them in scenarios where the enemy has started the game in a combined Green, weakened, half-strength, low ammo, and or partisan status...which will never happen in any of my games.

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They die very easily, so you have to bring them up behind your infantry. They travel slowly and tire easily so use short moves and hide at the end of each one. Sneak if possible but only over short distances. Range is about 30m so you often have some difficulty getting into range but they will wipe out a squad if you can get there. Can be used against tanks as a sort of TH

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noxnoctum,

Welcome aboard! If you take certain precautions and/or are lucky, it can be done as you describe.

Thoroughly suppress the objective, smoke the approaches, with particular attention to nearby areas that fire into the zone of attack, and make sure to turn off any HMG fire into the objective before debussing the assault force. Otherwise, you'll shoot your own men. While this drill can be done in daylight, fog and night really help. Do NOT lead such an attack with your flamethrowers because the AI preferentially targets flamethrowers, and you want to have other, closer targets to divert it. IOW, lead with infantry! If you have any say in the matter, play at Extreme Fog of War. This'll make it harder for either the AI or a human opponent to locate and target your flamethrowers--until they fire! As for utility in urban combat, there's a great shot in the promo for the Military Channel taken from the Battle of Berlin, in which a gout of flame jets from the upper stories of one building, across the street, and into the third story window of one where the occupants were apparently still resisting. See this Russian WW II reenactment ~54 seconds here for that that looks like. Enjoy the vid!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBKzcN8rn3c

Here's a rough equivalent covering the Germans, to include manportable and some models of vehicle mounted flamethrowers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baSD6ZAqtyo&feature=related

Regards,

John Kettler

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Good advice guys thanks.

I'm writing an AAR of the battle, should be quite epic, will post when done :).

While I'm asking about this sort of thing, what is the range of the thrown satchel charge (trying to gauge whether it will reach across a street to a nearby building)

Kettler, any idea where that video from Military channel is? Sounds quite epic! Come to think of it I've only seen a very few few actual videos of flamethrowers in action during the war. (only pictures)

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noxnoctum,

They play it as a channel teaser, a comment on the universality of men in battle: the courage, the honor, the sacrifice. The streetfighting segment is at the end of that teaser.

This isn't that teaser, but Russian flamethrower teams are filmed in combat starting at ~1:58 in this impressive Russian produced Battle of Berlin doc. Recommend you watch all five parts, noting the streetfighting toys we asked for but didn't get. This is Part 3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gx9fI2mc7Q&feature=related

Found it! Part 4, starting ~4:40 and continuing through ~4:52. Truly attention getting!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LXBDKKpLxw&feature=related

Regards,

John Kettler

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If you have any say in the matter, play at Extreme Fog of War. This'll make it harder for either the AI or a human opponent to locate and target your flamethrowers...

It's been a very long time since I played and I have forgotten, so please pardon me for asking, but doesn't the AI always play at Extreme FoW? I thought choosing the setting only effected the human player(s).

Michael

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a flamethrower is efficient in defense...because when you put him in front of your troops the 2 guys handling it will receive enough suppressive fire to get themselves killed.

IMO the rushing tactic is risky, because the HT can get a shot from something you did not see and disembark the FT in the open, or the FT will have serious close range fire to deal with when he faces the house occupiers.

my 2C

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The trick that Walpurgis Nacht / Faustius insisted on is that your FTs should not shoot directly, with LOS, at their targets, but that an area shot, protected by LOS block, works well.

Meaning out of view of say, a given house's occupants, but still able to torch the building?

I find it difficult to find that sweet spot (where I can see the building but not be seen by those inside), any suggestions?

Other than that, several of my FT's supported by some engis ambushed infantry moving into a house across the street. They (the enemy) broke and ran almost instantly!

Is it dangerous to use them within a building (if an enemy assaults the building the FT is in)? Will it hurt my own guys?

I'm still wandering though: What is satchel throw range?

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Other than that, several of my FT's supported by some engis ambushed infantry moving into a house across the street. They (the enemy) broke and ran almost instantly!

noxnoctum - morale is affected significantly by flamethrowers - a deliberate design feature.

I tend not to use them in assault because they tire too quickly. Good for ambush where there is short LOS - as you found - in trenches / foxholes in woods, at night, in built up areas. For flame assaults, go for the halftracks or flame tanks.

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As BlackVoid mentioned; If you can get close to an enemy with FTs, you didnt need them to begin with.

Flammers are still overmoddled, because they can route a fresh squad with just a burst.

Flammers are meant to be used after the battle ( a normal CM encounter ) to clear any remaining enemy units that are already degraded ( heavy casualties, low moral, low ammo, etc ), and should have limited use in CM or just banned altogether.

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The handy thing with flamethrowers is the effect they have on units just out of LOS/LOF.

I discovered this in a night battle with an area fire near a vehicle just out of LOS/LOF in a last ditch attempt to take it out. To my surprise the flame had destructive spillage beyond where the target point is.

Only disadvantage is that in a minute the foot flamethrowers will just about expend their load, but this is generally not a problem for FT tanks :D

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I was just about to mention, and will thus emphasize, what Wicky mentioned: area fire an infantry FT and it will expend all its ammo in 1 minute--very frustrating to watch, since 1 blast usually is enough to make the enemy leave. Nevertheless, the limited ammo does likely prevent even more ahistorical use of FT.

As to the original question: Running up FT in HTs for an assault? Can't imagine too many CM battles which would allow that. Thin-skinned AFVs don't last long if they are in the thick of CM battles, and neither do FT. If you have enough unit points to try a FT/HT assault, the other side is likely to have a lot of units to counter it. And if you really have that much overwatch to cause suppression, then likely all one needs is a HT, or an HT plus a infantry squad, to run up and spot so the overwatch can kill. [Even then, it would pain me to run up a HT to borg-spot--just feels like a bad tactic]

But, yeah, if it worked, it might look cool.

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Flammers are meant to be used after the battle ( a normal CM encounter ) to clear any remaining enemy units that are already degraded ( heavy casualties, low moral, low ammo, etc ), and should have limited use in CM or just banned altogether.

Do you have an actual, credible source to support that claim for all of WW2 and for all armies? Because I know battle accounts that contradict it.

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