First Impressions

[WHLNH]

Having grown-up on Empire on the mainframe I was looking forward to this game. My first impression was not disappointing. The game reminded me of my beloved Empire, but taking on characteristics of the Civilization series.

I have been somewhat disappointed in the AI. I am playing against 2 computer opponents on Veteran AI, I control about 1/3 of the map and am at war with one player. I have yet to have any of my cities attacked and other than one or two encounters, I think with enemy transports, have not encountered any enemy units. For that matter, I have yet to encounter any units of the third nation. I have, however, seen resources taken over by the other two players.

I am up to turn 175 and have had the game freeze on my at least three or four times. It did not happen near the beginning of the game, but now seems to be happening more freqently.

If you enjoyed the Empire series you will initially take to this game. I am getting concerned with the freezes and hoping I did something wrong to have created the lack of any properly controlled AI opponent. I'll have to try to verify I didn't select "easy", but I want to say I clearly remember purposely selecting Veteran as I frequently play my first game of anything on easy and ratched it up as I progress or start a new game.

Bill

[rich12545]

Brit is working on the freezes. There are a few different ones.

Agree on the AI. I'm playing a medium size map, 3 veteran ai opponents, own about a fourth to a third of the map, and have not encountered the enemy. The ai needs to be made way more aggressive.

I know the beta is officially over, but it feels like it's still going on. I think the next few weeks will see the crashes fixed and other improvements, hopefully the ai.

[thetwo]

Observations on the AI.

I've been playing on a 2000x2000 map, 3 elite AI opponents.

So far, no one has attacked me, the computer players have expanded very litte. They've built no aircraft. The one enemy that I am at war with is the one that I attacked. They do not attack each other either.

My own expansion was rapid and I frequently left cities undefended, even entire islands. They were ripe for invasions by the AI. Nothing.

I enjoy playing games solo so AI is very important to me. To see a game released with an AI that isn't capable of rudimentary function is disappointing. When I saw the lobomotized AI in the demo, I thought it a work in progress as the game hadn't been released. But now?

The AI builds warships that are sent to sea then don't move. It builds transports and loads them, but doesn't invade or expand. It builds masses of land units that do nothing.

This isn't even a basic AI . . . yet, because it is not capable of challenging the human player in any way. I am surprised that a game in this state is associated with the Battlefront name.

I believe the customers who purchase this game can have the reasonable expectation of an AI that is challenging and more advanced than anything that they saw in the Empire series. After all, that is the point of the game, to expand upon and extend the concepts and enjoyment of the genre.

I have to agree with rich12545 that it appears that we are funding an ongoing beta. I hope there is a plan for a dynamic, challenging, and enjoyable AI. That would guarantee replayability and a long life for the game. Unfortunately, once the game went live, it became a valid target for reviewers as it is now. That rush to release, even if the AI is later completely fixed (which would be a surprise in this industry), will likely result in a lingering taint.

[Brit]

Observations on the AI...

Sorry about your bad experience. Rest assured, I will be working overtime until I can get everything working as it should be.

[Rosseau]

This is certainly an area of concern, especially that some of us don't use multiplayer and there are few people on the servers so far.

I assume if you give the AI assets when setting up a custom scenario, it still does nothing with them...have to try it.

If so, will keep busy creating new databases until AI is improved.

[WHLNH]

"I've been playing on a 2000x2000 map, 3 elite AI opponents.

So far, no one has attacked me, the computer players have expanded very litte. They've built no aircraft. The one enemy that I am at war with is the one that I attacked. They do not attack each other either....."

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Yup, as I continue to play I am sad to say that at this time folks should probably stay away from the game. Simply put, there is no AI in this game, so if you enjoy playing lengthy games, like this, solo it simply is not ready for prime time. I agree that I am not used to something being released in this much of a beta stage under the Battlefront banner, so am disappointed with them. I'm sure Brit is committeed to the game, but with an AI this underdeveloped it is questionable, to me at least, that it can ever be brought up to where it should be.

Just my opinion folks, I really want to see this game succeed as I remember many long and enjoyable hours with Empire in my past and with the graphics and functionality this one adds it has great promise. Just can't recommend buying it at this time.

Bill

[Moon]

Well, if that is so then there must be a bug or bugs somewhere. As the testers will be able to assure you, and I can myself as well, the AI has been putting up a heck of a fight during testing. So much so that from what I recall the Elite AI had to be toned down in aggressiveness somewhat. Ask Steve what he thought about the AI during our little test AAR game when ND had to come to his rescue

Martin

[holden88]

I've had the same experiences as others so far. The AI is very passive and tends to ignore you as you conquer the majority of the map. I did notice that once I declared war the AI seemed to perk up however. The AI started attacking me (even conquered an island from me) and started building more advanced units (air).

I wonder what would happen if you declared war against the AI as soon as the game started. Perhaps the AI would come after you more aggresively early on an actually provide more of a challenge.

[WHLNH]

Maybe you are on to something, may not be all the problem but maybe it contributes, especially since the testers allege they saw a lively AI.

You declared war, I ordered a sneak attack on Germany (but the status screen does show me at war with Germany). Maybe the AI isn't really triggered unless War is actually declared.

On the other hand, it does not explain why I have only now seen my first French unit (I'm the US) and I still have not seen many German units (probably around 10 and I'm close to turn 200 with close to 1/2 the world under my control).

Bill

[John DiFool the 2nd]

It's clear that their expansion "strategy" (as such) is rather lacking. First priority has to be building infantry/tanks and the transports you need to carry them, and scouting out for new areas to expand into. Not sure if EOS has an AI which can see into the Fog of War ot not; in any event they don't seem to use their air units for recon much, nor do I see enemy destroyers probing towards my lines in search of new booty to capture.

[Kelly's Heros]

From my experience, the AI doesn't attack until it starts running into conflict situations. It tries to stay neutral until it is forced into war. If you want to fight the AI, then attack it. Once you do, you'd better be ready to fight. I always wait until I'm ready for the fight, but I don't always get the chance to make that decision.

Maybe Brit needs to add a type of AI that is aggressive early on to please those who like to be rushed. :-)

[Kelly's Heros]

Well, I've been on Battlefront from the beginning and I can tell you that releasing games before they're ready for prime time is nothing new. CM and SF both suffered major issues early on and poor reviews as a result. The developers stayed with them and now they have very substantial games that are well supported.

It costs a lot of money to build a game and eventually the developer has to release it in order to start making money or run out of time. Since Brit is working on this by himself, I assume he is up against time and money constraints as well.

As long as he patches the game and makes it right, I'm sure in the long run he'll do well. I have yet to see a decent game come out of the shoot perfect. If you look at the number of patches that happen to most games in the first year, you know that this is very common even at battlefront, which is a very dedicated team of developers.

As for the AI, well, I've played the game and it will keep you entertained. It needs work and I'm sure that now that Brit has released the game, he is working overtime to get it adjusted and working properly.

I spend most of my time right now playing WITP AE and they are releasing their second major patch in 5 months. This second patch is significant and still won't correct all of the problems with the AI and other issues. However, we grognards stay with it because we know it is getting better each time. I know EOS will get better as long as we support Brit and don't slam him on the boards.

[raauthaa]

From my experience, the AI doesn't attack until it starts running into conflict situations. It tries to stay neutral until it is forced into war. If you want to fight the AI, then attack it. Once you do, you'd better be ready to fight. I always wait until I'm ready for the fight, but I don't always get the chance to make that decision.

Maybe Brit needs to add a type of AI that is aggressive early on to please those who like to be rushed. :-)

AI on Veteran difficulty seem to attack early (on Elite they certainly do!). Especially if you grab alot of resources early. However there attacks peter out fairly soon and then stagnate in there resources rush. Deffnately work to be done with the AI expansion and diplomatic abilities...

..but tehy are more lively on higher settings.

[WHLNH]

I really must be missing something. I am up to turn 192, ro so, against a veteran AI, been at war with Germany from fairly early on and have not seen hardly any German units (having uncovered half the globe) and maybe two units of the 3rd nation, with whom I am not at war. Not one city attacked by the computer, nothing. I can only assume there must be something wrong with specific settings.

I've started a new game, up to around turn 60, large map, elite AI, have not yet encountered any computer forces.

Interesting.

Bill

[thetwo]

Kelly's Heroes, My previos experience with Battlefront has been with the SC line and those games have been pretty solid upon release. I did not intend my comments to be be in any way harsh, simply observational and necessarily direct. I have a high regard for the Battlefront brand. I concur that that there is nothing to be gained from recriminations or vitriol. We pays our money and we takes our chances.

I was wondering if, once Brit gets some of the basics of the AI combat actions and responses worked out, if a set of personality models might be possible for the AI players. Consider three basic personality types, conservative, moderate, agressive. Within each of those, there could be a range of variation (say from responsive to hostile) that could change over time depending on situation. It would provide exploration, build queue, diplomatic, negotiation, and response to attack option modeling and wouldn't have to be anything fancy. If these were randomized, there would be no need for the player to know what he was facing, unless he selected an aggressive AI.

Just a thought.

[Rosseau]

Great suggestions. I assume programming AI for EoS should be a bit easier than for a nightmare game like HOI3 with all its complexities.

[Das123]

I for one am really impressed with the balance and game-play. Only had the AI running on Novice and Veteran but it plays as I would expect and is entertaining. I guess for the grognards it is a little light, but for 'beer and pretzels' players like me it is ideal.

I'm very happy with my purchase.

[Kelly's Heros]

From what I've seen so far, Brit is very committed to making this a 5 star game and I've really seen a lot of folks starting to comment positively on the improvements. I like all of the suggestions that are being made to make this a much better experience than the original Empire. Can't wait to get my copy for Christmas :-)