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American Hellcats in CMAK

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Agreed , if you are playing me buy Hellcats.

I do have a recent game where my Panthers and Hetzers disposed of a mix of Hellcats and M10's [and halftracks]. Mortaring to make therm move out of cover was fun : )

I think I lost two or three Hetzer's but those were to ATG's fortunate enough to get slight angles. I think I killed about nine TD's and a similar number of halftracks. On a huge map mobility was actually more useful than in most CMAK games.

Given my tanks available I think playing as Americans was a bit hopeful and would recommend playing the UK - apart from the lightweight infantry they have the better weapons. Even so in 1945 the UK infantry does get a little more potent. And they have better affordable planes just to scare the Axis you might one.

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Haha, Panthers and Hetzers eh? :) I'm suprised a PzIV/70 wasn't in the mix also - just to make sure! Anyways that just reinforces my point, apart from tungsten, the US 76mm has little hope against that impenetrable wall of German steel unless getting close frontally and/or flank shots - which in turn leads to speed to even make it possible, uparmoured Shermans serve no purpose here. That alone isn't the magic answer of course, as you still have to be able to drive them in concert with everything else.

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I have no problem with people buying Hetzers and Panthers when I played Allies providing it is on a huge map with some undulations and trees. In this particular instance I think his TD's and halftracks were actually not well used because my flanks were not turned nor a major feature secured.

I believe the enemy is entitled to bring to the battlefield anything that is on the purchase screen. After all warfare is trying to get the best match-up against the enemy force.

BTW if he had chosen British my force choice would have looked just adequate as Hetzers find Churchills a problem and Panthers fall to 6lbers and 17pdrs. Hetzer top armour is very poor so an invitation to mortars and aircraft. Also they carry little HE and not a lot of MG. Just have to know your enemy : )

Lastly is that you don't have to fight tank to tank, just get your objectives and let him worry about evicting you. Or let him get them and you already have a plan to make it expensive to defend. Just the fun of the game!

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How would you say they perform in comparison to Sherman "east eights" in CMAK battles vs. German armor?

I play small Ger units in Italy usually with small villages with a mix of Ger inf (1 plt), extra MG's, oncall 81's and a few antitk units with 2 to 3 pzs or Stugs and maybe a towed light weapon like a 2 cm or an inf how and/or maybe a 5 or 7.5 cm AT gun. The US or Allied side always has 2 mech plts in carriers, arty, maybe a couple M5's or M8's and then 4 or 5 tks.

Hellcats never seem to do too well especially mixing it up with inf and handheld pzfaust or pzschrecks. In addition the terrain is usually a bit hilly and if I get a hit in the first couple of rds I normally get the win.

Btw, I hope many of you have seen the great programs "Tank Overhaul" on the Military Channel (USA). I recently watched the one on the "Hellcat" where they actually found its 86 yr old former cdr. Also watched the one on the Panther and Comet.

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Something else I learned - if two Hellcats are together when one blows up it will blow the other one up too :(

Oooh, nasty.

I like Hellcats - cheap, manouvrable and deadly. I'm pretty sure their AP ammo is better than that of the Sherman's: at least, when I see a German AFV snotted by a Hellcat it usually explodes in spectacular fashion.:D

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Hellcats never seem to do too well especially mixing it up with inf and handheld pzfaust or pzschrecks.

But that's only to be expected and a serious abuse of the vehicle (not that that never happened in real fighting). What the M18 was designed for and excelled at was the shoot & scoot ambush against armor on the march. Fire a few rounds and once the enemy begins to come out of the original shock, bug out and move on to the next position. Due to the small size of the maps and limited time scale in CM, this is a bit hard to model. But used that way, the Hellcat nearly always came out way ahead in the won/lost column.

A big part of the problem is that most gamers want to go toe to toe in a slug fest until the enemy is reduced to smoking ruins. If that's your game, you'd better bring a few Churchills or Pershings. But even then...you'd better learn some tactics. (That last comment was not specifically directed at you, Narses, but just a general observation.)


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