Normandy Bone

[Sergei]

Yes, that means you can't have something like a BT-5 swarms in 1945, nor a bunch of Pak37s trying to take on ISU-152s.

You know, neither BT-5, T-26 nor PaK36 had disappeared by 1944-45. They may have been rare, and had different purposes (like the light ATG's effectively becoming light infantry guns) or limited to quiet sectors (like the Karelian Front where there hadn't been much armoured warfare between early 1942 and mid 1944) and/or used in desperation by smaller armies.

[Götz von Berlichingen]

Forget the Finns???

That would be like Blackforest cake without the cherries or roast beef without the horse radish.

I could live without the ItaliansQUOTE]

Dont they just throw down their weapons and run away anyhow?

[Sergei]

....and in all those 16 modules, we won't have room for more than "some" Axis minor powers?

We at least need the Italians, Romanians and Hungarians, although I agree we can probably exclude the Finns...

Yes, you should absolutely exclude Finns from the Axis minors, since for most of the war Finland was not part of Axis nor allied with Germany (apart from June 26th to July 31st, depending on how you view the Ryti-Ribbentrop agreement). Officially and practically they were just co-belligerents or members of a coalition.

One needs to remember that not all minor nations need to be portrayed in every game, eg. Finnish army hardly had any serious fighting in 1942 or 1943. Likewise Hungarians and Romanians didn't do much anything in 1943 other than lick their wounds, and Italians also had other businesses to attend after Stalingrad.

One very useful feature in CMx2 is that unlike CMx1, no army is hardcoded on one side or the other. In CMBB you couldn't play out the Lapland war between Finns and Germans at all, and Allied Romania was only possible because the OOB had been copied to the Allied side starting from autumn 1944.

[Götz von Berlichingen]

Forget the Finns???

That would be like Blackforest cake without the cherries or roast beef without the horse radish.

I could live without the Italians

Dont they just throw donw their weapons and run away anyhow?

[Götz von Berlichingen]

Can't model Uranus

Get your mind out of the gutter!!!

[laca25]

I'd love to have the Hungarians in the 44-45 release for three reasons....

1:the battle of Debrecen

2:the battle of Budapest

3:Operation Frühlingserwachen

but than again I'll be happy to play whatever we get.....

[Battlefront.com]

Quick responses...

Playback for RT is a technical challenge that we're interested in pursuing at some point, but definitely not for Normandy. Too many other fish to fry. That doesn't mean we don't value it (quite the contrary!), rather there's enough doubt that we can get it to work that we're kinda just waiting until the average computer is a bit faster and we have some time to potentially waste (i.e. if we can't get it to work).

I knew I shouldn't have mentioned specific vehicles

Yup, the Finns are unique. And whatever god or gods might be out there... we thank you! Having another race of incomprehensible speaking, pale, hard drinking, nuts out there might be too much for this one tiny planet handle. Certainly it would be more than the Swedes could handle! And I say that with the deepest respect for Finns

The hardest part of simulating the Hungarians and Romanians is that they have a lot of their own hardware, from small arms to vehicles. That means each presents a significant, though not necessarily cost prohibitive, development effort. Fortunately, though, I do still have all the obscure research materials I used for CMBB. In fact, I think the Romanians and Hungarians on the Eastern Front were some of the most interesting parts of that whole conflict!

Steve

[Nicdain]

Dont they just throw donw their weapons and run away anyhow?

Those were the Rumanians, IIRC

[Battlefront.com]

I need to amend my comments about the Axis Minors and the 3-4 Module estimate per Eastern Front Family. It's highly likely that we won't need more than 2-3 Modules to cover the German and Soviet forces for a particular Family's period of coverage. Therefore, if we do not cover the Axis Minors it is likely that the total Eastern Front Module count will be more like 8-12 Modules and not 12-16. To clarify, at present we see two possibilities:

1. Having 8-12 Modules and no Axis Minors covered

2. Having 12-16 Modules and having Axis Minors covered

The question we have now, and can't answer until later, is if there is enough demand for the Axis Minors to warrant making a Module for them. If we think the answer is "yes", then we'll make such Modules available provided people actually buy them. If we think the answer is "no" then we'll just skip them. It has a lot to do with factors which aren't known at the moment.

Steve

[Sequoia]

Except we'll see the Finn's almost for sure at least once right? And as Sergei ponted out, they weren't really an Axis Minor.

[Cid250]

2. Having 12-16 Modules and having Axis Minors covered

I'm in this side of the customer spectrum... Minors, please!.

[Andrew H.]

Finns are necessary. Other axis minors would be nice. But what I'm really looking forward to seeing are partisans!

[76mm]

will it be possible to release one module with just the axis minors, but which can be played with any of the games? I doubt this is possible, but I'd probably buy something like this.

Not sure if I'd buy a module which only adds Rumanians which I can only use with one game.

The obvious solution is to add additional Soviet troops as well to sweeten the pot (Soviet marines, airborne, partisans, Guard units, penal battalions, and of course mounted Cossacks!!!). Don't think you'd have a hard time selling something like that.

[Sequoia]

will it be possible to release one module with just the axis minors, but which can be played with any of the games? I doubt this is possible, but I'd probably buy something like this.

Not sure if I'd buy a module which only adds Rumanians which I can only use with one game.

The obvious solution is to add additional Soviet troops as well to sweeten the pot (Soviet marines, airborne, partisans, Guard units, penal battalions, and of course mounted Cossacks!!!). Don't think you'd have a hard time selling something like that.

I imagine you'd get the Hungarians and Romanians together but thats a good idea. IIRC CMBB didn't have Soviet Airborne. That would be a nice sweetener.

But you won't see horses ever. It's an old Combat Mission running gag to ask for horses by the way. That and motorcycles. You probably won't see those either.

[76mm]

But you won't see horses ever. It's an old Combat Mission running gag to ask for horses by the way.

C'mon, I've been around long enough to know that. It was, you know, a joke.

[Sequoia]

My apologies.

[undead reindeer cavalry]

One very useful feature in CMx2 is that unlike CMx1, no army is hardcoded on one side or the other. In CMBB you couldn't play out the Lapland war between Finns and Germans at all, and Allied Romania was only possible because the OOB had been copied to the Allied side starting from autumn 1944.

it's indeed cool. the downside is that the few worthwhile battles feature stuff like Germans running those captured French tanks. what are the chances for all the needed crap to be included? :|

no, what really needs to be done, and what i have always wanted to play, is a true ultra realistic 1:1 wargame simulating battles on the Karealian ishtmus in 1944. the game shows beautiful and accurate Karelian scenery, rendered with great detail and utilizing the latest shader tech. the trick is that the game is played by joystick. game mechanics are identical to those C-64 games like Decathlon (e.g. you must move joystick rapidly from left to right and right to left and left to right as fast as possible and even faster). the goal of the Finns is to run as fast as possible from the Soviets. he loses if the Soviet player catches him. likewise, and not totally surprisingly, the Soviet player wins if he catches the Finns. but there is more. if the Finnish player presses "shoot" button at very specific points of the marathon, like Viipuri, a turbo speed running mode is triggered. the Soviet player can counter it by immediately pressing "shoot", which causes Finns to discover alcohol deposit which downgrades their running speed for a while.

[Sequoia]

I just thought of something ( I know, it does hurt when I do that.) If they're working backwards chronologically on the Eastern Front, it would make sense to do so on the Western Front as well so you could use your Germans on either front. Therefore, the third Western Front Family (after Normandy and Battle of the Bulge) will be Tunisia and Italy 1943 to 1945, am I right?

[MikeyD]

I'm losing count, would that make for thirty seperate titles or forty? I mean after the "German occupation of Guernsey" title?

I'm not sure which aphorism is more appropriate:

"There's many a slip twix the cup and the lip"

or

"A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush"

[Sequoia]

Yeah I should have put a smiley after my last post.

[laca25]

I'm losing count, would that make for thirty seperate titles or forty? I mean after the "German occupation of Guernsey" title?

I'm not sure which aphorism is more appropriate:

"There's many a slip twix the cup and the lip"

or

"A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush"

Does this mean that I'll be playing CM games for the rest of my life?

[ASL Veteran]

Does this mean that I'll be playing CM games for the rest of my life?

I think that depends upon whether you are older than Steve and Charles or not - and I suppose if they have any children who want to take up the CM mantle after they have decided to retire.

[MikeyD]

I don't fear the Grim Reaper, I fear Bill Gates. Let's hope its a looooong time before he decides to come out with another 'revolutionary' (ahem) operating system and screws us all completely.

[Michael Emrys]

That's just cruel, Michael!

No, it's ensuring that a resource doesn't go to waste.

Michael

[Sergei]

it's indeed cool. the downside is that the few worthwhile battles feature stuff like Germans running those captured French tanks. what are the chances for all the needed crap to be included? :|

Something like fifty-sixty, I'd guess. Hopefully some of the chars de turd will be seen in Normandy, in which case converting them over to a Bagration module wouldn't be an overwhelming obstacle.

Other than that, we can always build ourselves campaigns where Finnish recruits march along a road trying to avoid mines, crossing destroyed bridges, and occasionally trekking through the woods to the German rear only to find out that Germans have moved on to the next roadblock.

no, what really needs to be done, and what i have always wanted to play, is a true ultra realistic 1:1 wargame simulating battles on the Karealian ishtmus in 1944. the game shows beautiful and accurate Karelian scenery, rendered with great detail and utilizing the latest shader tech. the trick is that the game is played by joystick. game mechanics are identical to those C-64 games like Decathlon (e.g. you must move joystick rapidly from left to right and right to left and left to right as fast as possible and even faster). the goal of the Finns is to run as fast as possible from the Soviets. he loses if the Soviet player catches him. likewise, and not totally surprisingly, the Soviet player wins if he catches the Finns. but there is more. if the Finnish player presses "shoot" button at very specific points of the marathon, like Viipuri, a turbo speed running mode is triggered. the Soviet player can counter it by immediately pressing "shoot", which causes Finns to discover alcohol deposit which downgrades their running speed for a while.

You crack me up, little buddy. But why not just license the Infogrames game North & South's engine, as it already has those 'running against the clock' sequences, the best real time tactical combat ever including HORSES and DESTRUCTIBLE BRIDGES (wego needs to be added in a patch), AND even a built-in strategic overlay == Combat Mission Campaigns done redundant! The game manual will be laced with LSD.