Campagin time limit question and gripe

[zmoney]

My question is why on earth are the time limits for the scenarios in the Brit campaign so short? Most of the maps I’ve seen so far are so beautifully done yet the time limits almost ruin the scenarios for me.

I just started the scenario were you have to clear some military equipment storage area (and it’s a rather large and beautifully done map) and was shocked to see the time limit set as 40mins. These short time limits through out the campaign is causing me to throw caution into the wind and is causing some unnecessary casualties to my pixel Brits. But rest assured the pixel letters I’m sending to their pixel parents are explaining that their sons gave their lives for the Queen because the designers of the scenarios failed to give me enough time to be careful with their pixel lives.

This very issue brings me to another point about a bug that has already been brought up; I’ve spent over $130USD on CMSF and the family of games and with each patch it seems to bring up a nagging problem which ruins an otherwise great game. Like the new save bug that seems to drain time form the clock if you save the game and turn it off. Then when you come back you see that you’ve magically lost some time from an already way under timed clock.

So like the wall bug that was introduced in a previous patch this is a problem that a hotfix would be appreciated to fix. Because there seems to be a long wait in between patches and the wall bug made the game unplayable for me until it was fixed in the proceeding patch. These are small gripes I know but when you spend over $130USD on a game you expect to see all the little things working properly.

I would like to reiterate though that this is a great game and overall you guys did a great job.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

I thought the time bug was related to the world clock (sun etc) not the time available to a player?

As to time limits, it's part of the game. And not without reason. There may be operational reason why speed is required. In WW2 the Germans especially had a reputation to counterattack rapidly and fiercely, so it was deemed essential for an attack to be driven home quick so defences could be established before the inevitable happened.

[Battlefront.com]

Zmoney,

The issue of clock time has been around for a long time within wargaming. Some people prefer not to have any time pressure, others relish it. Scenario designers are supposed to be realistic with the timeframes and have the battles tested to ensure that they are not being stingy. I can say for sure that the British Campaign was tested very thoroughly, so from that I conclude that the times are not unreasonable overall. For your particular style of play, however, it could very well be too short.

One thing I would like to work into the game sometime soon is the option to extend a battle's time. Objectives with times assigned to them would not be extended, however, so if scenarios were built with them those points would be lost if the player didn't achieve them with in the specified time.

As to the small annoying bugs that get sucked into each release... I'm afraid that's a side effect of putting in too many user requested features and tweaks. If we just focused on making sure the basic minimum was in and working correctly, we'd have a lot more robust patches. But they would be also extremely small in scope and therefore diminishing the value for the money invested. The clock bug, for example, was introduced as a side effect of improving save/load times for large battles. Technically speaking we didn't have to make an improvement since the game functioned correctly, but it was a user request and we went ahead and implemented it towards the very end of the development cycle. Which, unfortunate, increases the chances that a side effect will slip through. The solution to that is to not introduce any new features weeks before release, which again causes an overall reduction in value for customer investment.

The good news is we have already fixed that issue and it will be out in a new patch soon

Steve

[Combatintman]

zmoney - thanks for the compliments on the map - it took me a couple of weeks to get it right so glad to see the effort is appreciated. The time limits on many missions are pretty tight and it was a conscious design decision. If you remember one of the many gripes of the WW2 crowd about modern warfare is 'modern warfare is too easy for the blue player, I don't find it challenging' then this helps set the context. One of the ways to make each scenario challenging is to introduce a time constraint. I think Napoleon once said something along the lines of 'take anything from me but time' so its always a factor.

Added to that the other factor in the decision-making was the fact that we all have to organise our gaming around our real lives - many people do not have much more than an hour a day to devote to their hobby and so that is why few if any of the campaign missions are more than an hour in duration.

[c3k]

Steve,

Thanks for the info!!

Ken

[Thomm]

I just started the scenario were you have to clear some military equipment storage area (and it’s a rather large and beautifully done map) and was shocked to see the time limit set as 40mins.

Me too.

However, I finished this map with a Total Victory for 5 KIA and one Stryker lost. I used several reloads, of course.

I do not mean to imply that there is enough time, just that it is doable (at least by causing the enemy to surrender).

Best regards,

Thomm

[ScubaSam]

The good news is we have already fixed that issue and it will be out in a new patch soon

Steve

This may be a wild guess...but is the reason the standalone 1.20 has been delayed because 1.21 is in rapid development and the plan is just to release that and take everyone straight to 1.21?

[bodkin]

I just started the scenario were you have to clear some military equipment storage area (and it’s a rather large and beautifully done map) and was shocked to see the time limit set as 40mins.

I was a bit annoyed by this as well but in similar scenarios throughout the campaign I've found if you can just punish the red forces enough they surrender without you ever getting to capture all of the objectives.

Just don't get me started on that humanitarian aid mission, I got all but three of my trucks to the exit zone (under intense fire which I though was pretty good) but I still suffered a defeat while other players have just sat back and pounded the Syrians and won while not ever delivering the aid despite the scenario briefing.

[zmoney]

Thanks for the replies. I understand that bugs are going to fall through the cracks and I know BFC reputation so I’m sure all the problems will be ironed out. I’m just griping because I really enjoy this game, its great but it’s like going on a date with a smoking hot woman and when you sit down for dinner she eats with her mouth open and farts at the table. So other than a few small annoying problems I am very happy with this game and can put up with these things because I know they will be fixed.

I’m just worried that they will all be ironed out then you’ll release another awesome game like a week later and I’ll start playing that one instead of CMSF.

About the time limits; I understand the reasoning behind them and in reality the Syrians usually surrender before the time runs out but I just don’t like to be rushed without a valid tactical reason. Because the Syrians aren’t Germans and their counter attacks aren’t to vicious plus it’s hard to counter attack if your forces are running to Damascus as fast as possible. I like to take my time and keep my causalities down especially when these maps are first class maps and if they had a little more time I feel I could enjoy the maps to their fullest.

To the scenario designers, great job on the maps, so far they are great looking. With the exception of some force mixture issues I think these maps are near perfect

[zmoney]

I thought the time bug was related to the world clock (sun etc) not the time available to a player?

No it has to do with the game clock. I saved this battle at 39:59 and when I started it back up it had 38:54 on the game clock so it lost a little over a minute.

[Wengart]

zmoney, you can enter the editor and extend the campaign time for each map, if I'm not mistaken.

[Andrew H.]

Steve's idea of keeping the time limit but allowing extended play is a good one. I think it would be fine to have the battle end for scoring purposes at the time set by the scenario designer, but to give the option to the player to continue just for fun. Or to achieve closure...

Maybe when the screen pops up at the end showing the score, you would have the option of either reviewing the map or continuing the battle with no change to your score.

I do think that reasonable time limits are a good way of making a challenging scenario - I still remember, almost 25 years later, certain Squad Leader scenarios that turned on the outcome of a close combat in the objective building on the last phase of the last turn of the game.

[Atago]

The time limits do bug me a bit sometimes. It's the Syrian artillery that keeps me moving. Stick in one place too long and the %&$!! rounds fall like rain!

That mission with the convoy - I got trucks to the exit location, but then they just mill around there and weren't able to actually exit the map. I felt obliged to keep forces over on that side to protect them which caused me to loose more forces than I would have if they'd been able to exit.