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Another intersting question is which nation will get which tank or if they'll include the Leopard for every nation (having different texture sets in this case). Does anyone know if, for example, Dutch Leopards use different equipment than their German counterparts?

According to wiki:

Different smoke launchers, different night vision periscope for the driver, FN MAG instead of MG3 (co-ax and turret mount) and different radios. Pretty minor stuff really.

Fennek differs more, atleast in capability.

Seems the Germans opted for arming them with GMG and MG3 (no .50?) while the Dutch went for the .50. The Dutch bought a handful of GMGs for Afghanistan but I'm not sure which vehicles they got mounted on. I don't think the Dutch use MAGs though I recall seeing a promotional with a Fennek so equipped.

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Fennek differs more, atleast in capability.

Seems the Germans opted for arming them with GMG and MG3 (no .50?) while the Dutch went for the .50. The Dutch bought a handful of GMGs for Afghanistan but I'm not sure which vehicles they got mounted on. I don't think the Dutch use MAGs though I recall seeing a promotional with a Fennek so equipped.

German army doesn't use .50cal, only 7,62mm for their MG3. But since that is an improved/modernized version of the MG42, who cares? :D

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I am looking forward to the Canadian stuff (being Canadian) and am hoping they include the LAVIII.

We Canucks are usually poorly represented in the gaming world so this is going to be nice.

Come on fellow Canucks on this forum..make some noise..I assume there are more than just a handfull of us?

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Did the Javelin buy go through for Canada? The Canadian military was looking at the Javelin system to most likely replace the Eryx ATGM and the US green lighted the sale of 200 CLUs and some 840 missiles. Then nothing.

My search of the interweb can not find anything to indicate if the sale was finalized or if Canada went with another system (a Israeli system was in the running) or if the acquistion was cancelled.

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Might as well add in the RG-31 and the Bison as well.

If you have:

LAV III

Coyote

Leopard II

Leopard 1 C2

RG-31

Bison (Amb and EOD)

T-LAV (M113 with bigger motor, rubber tracks, and the old Grizzly turret)

T-LAV Engineer (RWS instead of turret)

T-LAV Fitter

Leo 1 ARV

AHSVS

AHVSV Wrecker

AROC

Then you can do a Canadian Afghan mission/campaign and have access to everything.

Priority would be LAV III, RG-31, Coyote, Bison, Leo 2, Leo C2

DG

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Normandy and NATO (and Afghanistan) are in parallel development right now. Which will come out first is yet to be seen :) (could well be in reverse order of what I wrote above)

So as Steve has stated that Normandy will definitely be out this year, that means that all of the above will be available before 31 Dec 2009.

This is good news indeed, 3 CMs in just the next 5 months.

Looks like Xmas time may be the right time to take all my untaken leave then....

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Um, you WILL be seeing German soldiers. :) This has been said for some time now.

FYI, I've been doing international security policy research at a German university for the last couple of months, and from what I've learned Germany's policy seems to be leaning more and more towards actual interventionism in cases like the fictional background as presented in CM:SF. Getting a little OT, here, though. ;)

This may be a pointer to German intervention in the future but CMSF is set in 3 months in 2008. Thats last year by the way and as of last year the German government werent into such interventions.

It seems a bit improbable then to include any German forces in a NATO module that wouldnt have them there in real life. I find it strange that the rationale to leave out Russian equipment does not get applied to any Blue equipment.

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This may be a pointer to German intervention in the future but CMSF is set in 3 months in 2008. Thats last year by the way and as of last year the German government werent into such interventions.

It seems a bit improbable then to include any German forces in a NATO module that wouldnt have them there in real life. I find it strange that the rationale to leave out Russian equipment does not get applied to any Blue equipment.

I think a dirty bomb going off in Frankfurt, which is part of the premise of the whole war, would make any German goverment interventionist except possibly if the Greens were in power.

So as Steve has stated that Normandy will definitely be out this year, that means that all of the above will be available before 31 Dec 2009.

This is good news indeed, 3 CMs in just the next 5 months.

Looks like Xmas time may be the right time to take all my untaken leave then....

I don't recall him ever saying definitely. I wouldn't hold my breath for Normandy this year, though as I read the tea leaves the NATO module has a good shot.

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This may be a pointer to German intervention in the future but CMSF is set in 3 months in 2008. Thats last year by the way and as of last year the German government werent into such interventions.

It seems a bit improbable then to include any German forces in a NATO module that wouldnt have them there in real life. I find it strange that the rationale to leave out Russian equipment does not get applied to any Blue equipment.

You do realize that this 2008 invasion of Syria is fictional and didn't actually happen, don't you?. What the German government did or did not do in 2008 is irrelevant, as an alternate history allows for alternate choices on their part.

The back story gives a great deal of leeway for how various European governments might respond to the events. They do not, however, really give Syria leeway to purchase the Russian military.

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You do realize that this 2008 invasion of Syria is fictional and didn't actually happen, don't you?. What the German government did or did not do in 2008 is irrelevant, as an alternate history allows for alternate choices on their part.

The back story gives a great deal of leeway for how various European governments might respond to the events. They do not, however, really give Syria leeway to purchase the Russian military.

Ah alternative history, now were talking. The Russians, seeing their waning influence in the Middle East decide to commit their forces to aid the Syrians............ just a thought. So if were having alternate histories, why not add this alternate and call it the Russian module....

The trouble with alternates is that we can all make up what we want then.

Cheers for being patronising though, it made me feel all warm and tingly....

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I don't recall him ever saying definitely. I wouldn't hold my breath for Normandy this year, though as I read the tea leaves the NATO module has a good shot.

Yes he did, he stated it in this forum that CM Normandy would definitely be out before 2009 is over. Not once since has he gone back on this as far as I can tell.

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He's not a Beta Tester though, does that still count?...;)

AFAIK Normandy is still on schedule to come out this year.

I dont have anything against Beta testers, just general rudeness or haughtiness occassionaly makes me smile.

Anyway, I actually managed to find the quote

Also, 2010 is not a release timeframe for CM: Normandy. And before you wisearses say 2011 :), I'll say it is definitely going to happen in 2009. Probably a few months later than we wanted, but then again everything is always later than we want. But that's normal since we're a software developer after all.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=86689&highlight=Normandy+2009&page=4

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I think a dirty bomb going off in Frankfurt, which is part of the premise of the whole war, would make any German goverment interventionist except possibly if the Greens were in power.

Well, actually, even the Greens wouldn't make any difference .. as has been proven by the German participation in the NATO air campaign against Serbia over Kosovo in 1999. Happened under the political leadership of a social-democrat/Green coalition. The greens didn't exactly walk out on the government back then ;).

Today, the german armed forces are in the process of changing their whole structure and mindset towards intervention, crisis prevention and engagements in a combined environment (NATO/EU/UN) - the classic defence of the homeland against conventional forces has been declared to be a scenario of very low probability and hence very low priority.

CMSF is just a game, not the reality .. but if ever german participation in a conflict like the one being depicted in CMSF was likely, then it would be right now.

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Ah alternative history, now were talking. The Russians, seeing their waning influence in the Middle East decide to commit their forces to aid the Syrians............ just a thought. So if were having alternate histories, why not add this alternate and call it the Russian module....

The trouble with alternates is that we can all make up what we want then.

Cheers for being patronising though, it made me feel all warm and tingly....

Sure, rewrite the background story to make it plausible, then pay to have the series republished with a whole new setting and back story.

Otherwise, we're all stuck with the back story BFC chose, one which makes the actual actions of the German government in 2008 irrelevant, but doesn't include room for an East/West armageddon smackdown in the desert.

I don't see why you are calling me out for being "patronizing." That's exactly what your statement that BFC was silly for not including Russia since they plan to include German units came off as, either that or you didn't understand that there was this whole back story in place that made your critique irrelevant. I thought it a wee bit rude and haughty, but sorry nonetheless.

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Sure, rewrite the background story to make it plausible, then pay to have the series republished with a whole new setting and back story.

I don't see why you are calling me out for being "patronizing." That's exactly what your statement that BFC was silly for not including Russia since they plan to include German units came off as, either that or you didn't understand that there was this whole back story in place that made your critique irrelevant. I thought it a wee bit rude and haughty, but sorry nonetheless.

I didnt and dont think BFC are silly for not including Russia. I just think they are silly for including Germany. If you look at the Backstory then all the US and Brit forces would already be in place, or mostly be in place. I personally just dont think its plausible to move any sizeable force to the Desert in the timescale here. I also think that politically it just would not happen in the warfighting phase.

Of course, its all bollocks and BFC can put into their game whatever sci-fi story they want to as its set in an alternative universe. I fully understand all of this and apologise for wasting anyones time in replying to my counter silliness......

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Hardly anyone has asked they include Russia as a Red force, but a few of us have asked for additional Russian equipment the Syrians never ha,d such as the T-80. Even Battlefront once said they were going to have a "Non-historical" branch of Red forces, though apparently that's been put on ice. Some have argued that the T-80 would add nothing really to the game that's not already there. For me, at least, its sort of like being a Mod Slut. Does using Andrew's uniforms or Mikey's or Gordon's vehicles mods add anything to the game? Gameplay no, but I can't resist downloading another good Tiger Mod though I already have several. I love the British module because the British bring a Wacky Races collection of vehicles to the game most of which I was not familiar with before. I'm glad we'll get the Germans and am hoping we'll get the same with them AND something new Red even if it's the truck. Sure I can give the Syrians a USMC truck but it's just not the same, :)

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We've been over the backstory many times before, and it is in the Manual for anybody who cares to read it to refresh their memories. I think it is far less plausible that the various NATO "quick reaction forces" would sit around doing nothing after their capitals were hit by dirty bombs than it is to think they would go down into Turkey (a NATO country) and attack over the border into Syria. Most countries do not want to be involved in war, but when you attack them... all kinds of things change. Most don't favor the approach of Spain.

Steve

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I just think they are silly for including Germany.

Everyone is entitled to his own taste, GSX. I don't think they are silly for that, and I really expect they will include them ;)

If you look at the Backstory then all the US and Brit forces would already be in place, or mostly be in place. I personally just dont think its plausible to move any sizeable force to the Desert in the timescale here. I also think that politically it just would not happen in the warfighting phase.

By the Spring of 2008 they [the terrorists] were all in place and waiting for the signal. [...]

Within a few hours dozens of pounds of waste uranium were detonated by conventional explosives, polluting major cities of the West for hundreds of years with toxic radiation. [...]

While further evidence was being sought the military forces of the West began to deploy to bases within striking range of Syria. [...]

The smoking gun came in April [...]

On June 15th sortie after sortie of Coalition aircraft launched attacks to soften up the Syrian defenses. The air attacks continued for three days as various nation's special forces slipped over Syria's porous borders to pave the way for the larger ground offensive. On the morning of the 19th a large American Force, Task Force Thunder, left its jump off positions and crossed into Syria... [...]

From let's say end of March to the beginning of June there are two months. GSX, don't you think it's enough time to move the forces involved? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I can recall that in the operation Iraqi Freedom 26.000 men mainly from your 1st Armoured Division, 7th Armoured Brigade, 16th Air Assault Brigade and 102nd Logistics Brigade were sent after the 20th of January 2003 and the ground forces started the offensive on the 20th of March 2003... It admit that since October 2002 some British units started deploying in Kuwait, but I think that since November 2003 a full "acclimatized" British Brigade has been in Irak until the time scope of the game. Even. And for the incoming troops, I would agree to say that the slowest deploying elements would take 10 weeks to get from their U.K. bases to combat readiness in the Syrian theatre.

About politics, well, as you have very well said it's all sci-fi as this scenario has never happened in reality. You can't tell for sure what Germany would do if Berlin, Frankfurt, Munich and Hamburg have become a kind of Chernobyls with some hundreds of death, thousands requiring decontamination and a mass panic between your citizens. It may be, as you have said, that the politicians wouldn't send troops to Syria and then loose the elections on the next year... What I'm sure of is that they wouldn't invade Poland instead :P

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Most countries do not want to be involved in war, but when you attack them... all kinds of things change. Most don't favor the approach of Spain.

Steve

Steve, I could say more than I should about the political hypocrisy in my country and how the Military end up paying with blood for that. Apart of the fact that Spanish society has a total lack of knowledge of what's going on in places like Afghanistan, since just from time to time our news say an IED has killed some of our soldiers there and they give no further information to make them understand why we are in this far away country. So then the "sheeps" bleat for them to come back since they don't have a f***ing clue of what is going on there. The approach you talk about is simple: the still current Government won the elections with the 11th of March 2004 Madrid train bombings (killing 191 people and wounding 1,800), three days before general elections. The two main parties started accusing each other of concealing or distorting evidence for electoral reasons. The former Government said the Basque terrorists of ETA were responsible for the bombings, since that would be favorable to their chances of being re-elected, while accepting the Islamist responsibility would have had the opposite effect, as it would have been perceived a consequence of the government's involvement in Irak, a policy already extremely unpopular with Spaniards (baa, baaaa... no blood for oooil...). Unfortunately for the U.S., George W. Bush wasn't the best public relations here in Europe. If he would have appeared on TV giving a can of powdered milk to a Sudanese I'm sure the common citizen would say he was getting paid somehow for it and people would stop drinking that brand of milk. Everything he was into, it was cursed, and so happened with our commitment in Irak. The current Government won the elections with the last votes he got promising the withdrawal of our troops from what was being seen as a Bush's adventure. Very easy: here the votes are the only important thing. The truth isn't. The politicians here always try to move in the directions of favorable polls. Doesn't matter how silly could be. So, in the hypothetical case of just one dirty bombs going off in a major city of Spain... I'll surely say that the public opinion would definitely ask in rage to send troops to Syria. And the Goverment would do that.

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