Beta Testers - Does the BF Module plays differently

[Damian90]

I had always supposed that the M1s were refurbs based on the Australian experience, so I've learnt something new today.

You know, old baseline M1's rebuilded to M1A2 and M1A2SEP variants are partialy new and partialy old vehicles. :-)

This means the hulls are old but rebuilded, turrets are completetly new because old "short" turrets canot be upgraded to new "long" turrets.

Also GDLS produce sometimes new hulls for turrets from tanks that have badlly damaged hulls from IED's, EFP's, RPG's and fire, but only if turret is still in good condition, if not, tanks is written off, cut and go to the elaboration facility.

However, even a new-build M1 has cost advantages over CR2, as the economies of scale reduce the unit price and increase the support base.

There are no new build M1's, production end in 1993 after build (For US + export versions) approx ~10,000 tanks.

All M1A2SEP's and M1A1SA's and M1A1FEP's are rebuilds. Australian M1A1SA's are modified M1A1SA's with some parts used in U.S.M.C. tanks. Iraq M1A1M's are old M1A1's (baseline) modified with different armor and electronic packadge from SA upgrade + T.U.S.K.

Saudi M1A2's are export version, new builds. Now upgraded to M1A2S with M1A2SEP electronic packadge and TIGER engines.

Kuwait M1A2's are basic export variant, no upgrades for them.

Egypt M1A1's are upgraded to M1A2 with M1A2SEp electronics.

All Arab countries M1's are in worst case armored ass well as M1IP and M1A1 (i.e. 450-500mm RHAe vs. KE on front turret) or in best case as well as M1A1HA (660-680mm RHAe vs. KE on front turret).

Australian M1A1SA's are armored ass well in worst case as M1A1HA or in best as M1A1HA+/HC or M1A2 (880-900mm RHAe vs. KE on front turret).

End.

The CR2 could have a smoothbore gun, it's just a drop-in replacement, physically, but whoever wants it has to pay for the trials and the implementation of the firing tables into the electronic architecture.

It's not so easy, L30A1 use two piece ammo, when 120mm smoothbore guns sue one piece ammo that is bigger, you need to redesign internal volume, electronics, just everything!

[Damian90]

BTW, if you or anyone wan't to learn about western tanks, here is my topic, now there is only M1, but later there will be CR2 and if BFC make Euro forces also about other tanks.

http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=87847

I also can write something about T-90SA. ;-)

Or tank that interest you.

[Battlefront.com]

Yeah, hearing some of our most crazed testers and scenario designers screaming in some incomprehensible form of English is definitely cool

We will have a demo for the Brits out fairly soon. It should give people wondering if there is anything in it for them an answer. And if not, thanks to online distribution there will be feedback here to sift through in short order. We certainly don't think everybody will have their socks knocked off by this offering, which is fine. Our whole strategy for CMx2 is to give people more variety in a way that is economically viable for us.

Back to the Challenger 2 export issue...

Based on rough guesses for the cost of a single Challenger 2 vs. an Abrams, the Challenger 2 comes out very poorly. Almost 40% more per tank than a typical export Abrams when international currency exchanges are taken into account. That's a pretty big difference. Especially if you are a nation that runs on Dollars and not on Euros or Pounds Sterling.

Unfortunately, the British have had a very mixed record in terms of their vehicle designs. To be fair, so has the US. The difference is the US Department of Defense spends tons of money (literally!) to correct the deficiencies. The UK MoD appears unable or unwilling to do this. In other words, the Brits seem to set their expectations lower and make do with whatever they get. Or outsource it to someone who can fix the problem, such as the SA80 being made by a German company now.

That's not to say that the British stuff is garbage, because it isn't. Especially when compared against the typical foe it will come up against. But it also isn't the best in the world. CM:SF British Forces hopefully portrays this realistically and fairly.

Steve

[Damian90]

I must ask.

UK tank factories are still capabale to produce FV4034 Challenger 2E?

I know that in US Lima Army Tank Plant factory and even Detroit Tank Arsenal are still capabale to do this, but British tank factories? I hope they can. :-)

[flamingknives]

Well, the Newcastle factory that built it is still in existence and has recently been working on the Trojan and Titan engineering tanks that are based on the same chassis.

[Damian90]

That's good, so maybe we see at last FV4034 Challenger 2E.

BTW, Oman use some FV4034, did this tanks are not the Challenger 2E? Or Oman use same variant as British Army use? No downgraded version? If yes this is not smart... in other way tipical for EU countries.

[flamingknives]

The Omani tanks predate, AFAICT, the 2E variant, so will be broadly similar to the British army vehicles, but with specific modification for desert conditions.