Weapon Data Modding

[gordonvembu]

I am on the fence whether to buy this game or not because i was very disappointed with ToW1 even after the uber patch. I would like to know if anyone has been able to modify weapon accuracies, ranges, speed numbers and so on in this game yet. I read on this forum about the unrealistic high accuracy and range of weapons in this game and that concerns me. Thanks for any replies.

[Prattboy9394]

First, you should play the demo, if you haven't. That'll address 95% of your concerns. Second, all those stats can be modified, as is possible on most well-designed gaming engines. I'm sure users will be posting their own mods at some point. Keep in mind this game just came out and its not in a genre that has a huge fan base so you'll have to give it some time.

I support his game because I see potential in it being great. The first demo battle hinted at elements of CC, Soldiers, Ground Control, WiC, and, of course, TOW =) I was sold.

However, if you're not getting this game based on minor playability nuances that some disagree with, then you're missing out on a highly realistic, fun, and, dare I say, good-looking strategic realtime war game.

[Redwolf]

As sorry as I am to say, but it seems fairly obvious that the gun projectile penetration data is still taken from 0 degree angle for the Allies and 30 degrees for the Axis.

It has recently been confirmed that the previous (TOW1) excuse, that there is a second database for the combat calculations and the above data is just for display, was simply made up.

[Sneaksie]

Redwolf, you continue to state that some data is wrong, but you didn't do anything to back up your 'fairly obvious' claims.

Again, the data in the game comes from Soviet field manuals (there were field manuals for German captured weaponry as well). Here is the penetration data tables for Pzgr. 39 and 40 for example, you can compare it with the data in the game.

I don't know where you got this 'excuse' stuff at all. We don't make excuses because we don't need to. And we don't invent them.

[Redwolf]

I didn't say you made the excuses i TOW1, it was some non-company fanboys IIRC.

If we want to get to the grounds of this we would have to compare some penetration data from the game. Could you post some for the most common gun types?

Obviously, if you relied on just one single source for the penetration data you would be vulnerable to errors in that source - including the possibility that the authors of that data mixed up 0 and 30 degree angle data.

[Prattboy9394]

ummm...i'm not sure what this back-n-forth is about and what the backstory is. but thus far the penetration data have been very convincing. i.e. an M3 Stuart is hopelessly outmatched by a PZIV except at close range. My M4s regularly get their tickets punched out by 88mm without effort. The 20mm on the armor cars can take out a M3 on the sides and back. 75mm AP rounds goes right thru the shields of an 105mm arty. an unarmored BMW moto can take a few rounds from 30cal at extreme range before it is rendered useless...and so on.

honestly, that's good enough for me. Now, if you take penetration data from CoH and call it realistic, then that's laughable. I got tired of modding that game everytime a new version comes out.

[Redwolf]

Well, so somebody wants to post numbers or not?

[gordonvembu]

I have played the demo and i think the vehicle damage system feels realistic but i have an issue with the infantry ranges. Correct me if i am wrong but i feel 100 metres is about the maximum range for non-scope ww2 infantry weapons versus infantry targets. It feels ten-fold in this game. Also infantry targets should only be ranged out to about double or triple this distance with the limited sighting systems of ww2 factions. In ToW2 it feels like my infantry is being targeted by vehicles or atg at ranges over 1000 metres. I can accept a large vehicle being targeted out to 1000 metres but not a squad of men and surely not a sniper or mg unit. I don't understand how CoH, MoW and ToW all do not differentiate the type of unit (infantry, vehicle or ordnance) when distance to target is determined. If anyone has found a way to mod this trait into those three games please post a thread, i would love to mod it into existing mods i am playing for those games. Thankyou.

[Oudy]

Redwolf

This topic was done to death two years ago. All of the penetration data is available in the data/guns/ger/ directories. If you have a problem with the penetration values then feel free to change them, but they seem fairly normalized to me. Sneaksie and others developers have said from the beginning that all the penetration data is from the same degree angle. You don't have to believe them but they have been consistent.

[Ger\88mm_PzGr_39_APCBC]

Ammo        	Ger\88mm_PzGr_39_APCBC

Speed       	733

aimMinDist  	10

aimMaxDist  	2000

HistMaxDist 	14815

Dispersion  	1000 0.30

LinesH      	0	100	500	1000	1500	2000	2500	3000	10000		

Penetration 	115	113	105	97	89	81	81	59	0

gordonvembu

There is a great explanation of the new system of visibility for vehicles over at the 1C website (it's in Russian so you many need to use a translator on it.)

http://artofwar.games.1c.ru/page.php?id=48

This is one of the reasons we can't import the old models from TOW1 because they added visibility boxes in the 3d models. It really is quite an ingenious way to handle visibility and provides an historically accurate depiction of who could see where. The crew sees two times worse than regular infantry. Open topped vehicles have better visibility range (as good as infantry). You can test visibility ranges by creating a battle with a single enemy tank and an infantry unit. Creep the infantry toward the tank until it begins to fire. You'll find that you can get pretty close. If tanks are firing at your infantry from long distances it's probably because they've been spotted by another unit, which began firing on them.

It is very important to make a recon of the area you are about to attack because if your infantry is caught out in the open it will get ripped to shreds by machine gun fire. I'll admit the game still seems very lethal to infantry so you have to be very careful with them.

Hope that helps

Oudy

[Redwolf]

We need to see a mix of different German and Allied weapon penetration data to judge this question. A single German gun won't do.

When we had a similar thread about TOW1 the data was clearly from 0 for Soviet and 30 for German guns, at which point the "two databases" claim was thrown in by somebody (not 1C I think). I can dig up the old thread but it would be more useful to have a fresh look.

[Sneaksie]

Well, here's a page from 2pdr manual:

Look at last two columns - 90 and 60 degrees hits (previous two are for practice shots with lower initial speed to reduce barrel wear). Compare to values in game:

LinesH      	0	100	500	1000	1500	2000	2500	3000	10000	

Penetration 	64	60	47	33	23	17	10	5	0

If you want data for other guns, run the demo and move mouse cursor over any ammo icon.

[Redwolf]

Redwolf

This topic was done to death two years ago. All of the penetration data is available in the data/guns/ger/ directories. If you have a problem with the penetration values then feel free to change them, but they seem fairly normalized to me. Sneaksie and others developers have said from the beginning that all the penetration data is from the same degree angle. You don't have to believe them but they have been consistent.

[Ger\88mm_PzGr_39_APCBC]

Ammo        	Ger\88mm_PzGr_39_APCBC

Speed       	733

aimMinDist  	10

aimMaxDist  	2000

HistMaxDist 	14815

Dispersion  	1000 0.30

LinesH      	0	100	500	1000	1500	2000	2500	3000	10000		

Penetration 	115	113	105	97	89	81	81	59	0

Well, this is clearly at 30 degrees. At the lower side of available data. As a matter of fact I haven't seen the speed of this round (88mm L/56 Flak and Tiger 1 gun) being estimated at only 733 m/sec, but overall the data fits 30 degrees.

[Redwolf]

Well, here's a page from 2pdr manual:

Look at last two columns - 90 and 60 degrees hits (previous two are for practice shots with lower initial speed to reduce barrel wear). Compare to values in game:

LinesH      	0	100	500	1000	1500	2000	2500	3000	10000	

Penetration 	64	60	47	33	23	17	10	5	0

If you want data for other guns, run the demo and move mouse cursor over any ammo icon.

Exactly.

That, the line from within ToW2 is zero degrees data (or 90 if you go the other way round). The German data was at 30 degrees (or 60 if you go the other way).

So we are back to where we were with TOW1, pending more data.

[gordonvembu]

I would like to see the weapon data files in the demo i have downloaded. They are encrypted in .SFS extension files. Is the only way to open these files is with LINUX ? I don't want to install LINUX just to open these files, has anyone been able to do so without using LINUX ? Thanks for any help.